UMLCHINA Ninth Guest Chat Record Weiber Principal !! Return
Beijing time September 20, 2001 (Thursday) 21: 00-23: 00. Moderator: Fang Chunxu (FCX123)
Guest: John Vlissides, one of the four authors of "Design Mode" and has another bestseller "pattern hating". Now the IBM Research Center researcher. Research field: object-oriented software design tools and technology, design patterns, application architecture, interface design ...
Gang of Four (GOF) Greetings! I'm john, and this is my son matthew. (John's the cute one with glasses).
Blakeli smiling and said to everyone: Whon Have Read The Book of John Vlissides ?? (20:21)
Lipy said to Blakeli: Where can I buy it? (20:23)
IWXG said to Blakeli: How Many Times Have you read this book? (20:24)
Blakeli smiled and said to everyone: a lot of bookstores have! (20:24)
Blakeli smiled and said to everyone: i read it little (20:24)
IWXG said to Blakeli: I'm Just Reading IT, But I Can't Grasp IT Well. (20:26)
Blakeli smiled and said to everyone: o! Maybe you will get some advise from mr.john. (20:28)
Umlchina said to everyone: gof's photo at http://www.umlchina.com/chat/vlissidesinfo.htm (20:29)
Babysloth said to everyone: Pattern Hatching is good, and the C View is being serialized. (20:29)
Umlchina said to everyone: please set your color in black when you Talk to each other (20:30)
Umlchina said to everyone: in blue when asking Question (20:31)
Huangcy said to everyone: Hello, WHEN do We Begin the Talk? (20:40)
Johnvlissides enters the chat room. (20:47)
Feng98 said to everyone: Hi (20:47)
Umlchina said to everyone: Welcome (20:47)
Johnvlissides said to everyone: Hi! (20:47)
Umlchina said to Johnvlissides: Welcome (20:47)
Johnvlissides said to everyone: Hi Everybody! (20:48)
FCX123 said to everyone: Hello, Prof. Johnvlissides! nice to meeeet you. (20:48)
Babysloth said to everyone: Is Everything Ok NOW IN New York? (20:48)
Umlchina said to everyone: Moderator: FCX123 (20:48)
Johnvlissides said to everyone: I wouldn't say everything is iokay, but (20:48)
Johnvlissides said to everyone: Things are settling down (20:48)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides: Hello, nice to see you. (20:49)
Lipy said to Johnvlissides: Hello, Mr. John! (20:49)
Johnvlissides said to everyone: I PRESUME I'M Broadcasting now (20:49)
FCX123 said to everyone: Prof. Johnvlissides, please use red color! (20:49) Johnvlissides say: How's what? (20:50)
Umlchina said to everyone: Question and Participation: Blue of Grassland (20:50)
Babysloth said to everyone: I've Written to you and mr Stroustrustrup, But Only got reply from him. (20:50)
Umlchina said to everyone: talking to each other: absolute black (20:50)
FCX123 said to everyone: ok. Which one ask first? (20:50)
Johnvlissides said to Babysloth: That's Strange (20:51)
Johnvlissides said to Babysloth: What's your e-mail address? (20:51)
Babysloth said to Johnvlissides: babysloth@263.net (20:51)
Johnvlissides said to Babysloth: I Haven't Received Anything from You (20:51)
Johnvlissides said to Babysloth: try sending to vlis@us.ibm.com (20:52)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides: Professor John Lissides, Can you give us what the thing impstract Differences BetWeen Framework and software architecture? (20:52)
Babysloth said to Johnvlissides: OH, I'm Sorry. (20:52)
Johnvlissides said to everyone: First of All, A framework is code (20:53)
Lipy said to Johnvlissides: Can you tell me how you start your software designing? (20:53)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides: i offten confuse the in some abstract level. (20:53)
Johnvlissides says to everyone: IT Embodies the design of a category of software (20:53)
Johnvlissides says to everyone: Like for example, Accounting Systems or Graphical Editors (20:53)
Johnvlissides said to everyone: "Software Architecture" is an Emerging Discipline (20:54)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides: I think the architecture is the beginning begin of solidware design, isn't it? (20:54)
Johnvlissides says to everyone: Not unlike building architecture, but with many concrete Differences (20:54)
Johnvlissides said to Huangcy: Architecture is Most Useful for Larger Projects (20:55)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides: Can you give me these Difference? (20:55)
Johnvlissides said to Huangcy: Design Applies to Everything That Needs to last (20:55)
Johnvlissides said to lid: I got start by Writing Software! (20:55) Johnvlissides To lid: After a while, i Learned What worked and what didn't (20:56)
Johnvlissides to lid: i Just Had The Privilege of Writing Down and Publishing What I'D Learned (20:56)
Babysloth said to everyone: Well, I'm Interesting in The Story About How You Joined Gang of Four (or there). Could you please tell us Something? (20:56)
Johnvlissides says to Huangcy: Most Obviously, Building Architecture DEALS with Buildings (20:56)
Johnvlissides said to Huangcy: Less Obviously, Software Is Much More Malleable and Changes Faster (20:57)
LIPY said to Johnvlissides: What is the name of your new book? (20:57)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides: Yeah, But I think the software is mostly like building. (20:57)
Johnvlissides said to Babysloth: i can send you a Draft of an Article Talks About How We got together (20:58)
Johnvlissides says to Babysloth: Send Me E-mail at Vlis@us.ibm.com Requesting IT (20:58)
Johnvlissides say: i Personally Don n't have new book out (20:58)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides: in other words, Software is more unsteable? (20:58)
Johnvlissides said to lid: The last book i Authored is pattern hating (20:58)
Babysloth said to Johnvlissides: OH, Thanks !!! (20:59)
FCX123 said to Johnvlissides: I think the no reason, "Analyz Pattern" and "Design Pattern", Right? (20:59)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides: And Maybe Change Some Part Frequently? Buth How About Other AspectS? (20:59)
Johnvlissides said to Huangcy: Yes. There Are Lots of Physical Limitations On How Fast You Can Change A Building (20:59)
Johnvlissides said to Huangcy: Software Is Much Easier To change --- and break in the process (21:00)
PAOFAN said to everyone: Thank you very much much. mr.john. in this Special Time. u from usa, Talking About Pattern with US. (21:00) Lipy said to Johnvlissides: i Just Begin to Learn UML in Short Time? CAN YOU GIVE Me Important Advice? (21:00)
Johnvlissides says to FCX123: I Think Theree is Lots of Relationships Between Analysis and Design Patterns (21:00)
Johnvlissides says to FCX123: They is the Same Relationships That Exist Between Analysis and design themselves (21:01)
Simontang_bit said to everyone: Design and Analysis Are Unified Process. (21:01)
Johnvlissides says to FCX123: You can't Divorce Analysis from design. if you try, you'll fail (21:01)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides: And is design patterns use to shield tres? (21:01)
Johnvlissides said to PAOFAN: Thank you! (21:02)
Jeffray said to everyone: Where is the john? (21:02)
Johnvlissides says to PAOFAN: It's an Honor to Be Here (21:02)
Johnvlissides said to Jeffray: Right Here in Ny (21:02)
Johnvlissides said to lid: Check Out Fowler's UML DISTILED (21:03)
PAOFAN said to everyone: Is Pattern About Phlisophy? NOT Only Model (21:03)
Babysloth said to Johnvlissides: Jeffray, please be polite just ask as a Chinese !!! (21:03)
Johnvlissides says to lid: if you need to dig debrs, get rumbaughs reference manual (21:03)
Jeffray said to Johnvlissides: HMMMM, Nice to meet you john, i am one of your readers. (21:04)
Johnvlissides said to PAOFAN: There's a philosphical aspect to patterns, especially as alexander's (21:04)
Lipy said to Johnvlissides: Thank you very much! (21:04)
Johnvlissides said to Jeffray: a pleasure to meet you Too, Jeffray (21:04)
FCX123 said to Johnvlissides: Thanks! I Mean Analysis Focus Design Module of Realist. But Desin Are Focus How To DEAL with it. (21:04)
Lovelybug28 said to everyone: As a new to design pattern, can you give me some useful advice? (21:05)
Johnvlissides said to FOUNDER_CHEN: pleaged to meet you, Founder (21:05) PAOFAN said to everyone: Yeah, from architechure (21:06)
Johnvlissides says to Lovelybug28: a Good New Book Is Design Patterns Explained, by Shalloway (21:06)
Johnvlissides say: Great for Beginners (21:06) in Lovelybug28
Johnvlissides said to PAOFAN: Jim Coplien Has Written Extensively on The "ZEN" of patterns (21:06)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides: Thank you, Professor John Lissides (21:07)
Jeffray said to Johnvlissides: OK, John, I Wanna Ask You About the rules to use paraterns .. (21:07)
Babysloth said to Johnvlissides: Design Patterns Explained? Oh, It's Being Translated Into Chinese, Said to Be Very Good. (21:07)
Johnvlissides says to Lovelybug28: Beyond That, My Pattern Hatching Book Demonstrates How (Not) To Use Design Patterns (21:07)
PAOFAN said to everyone: Some Thing is coming to real. as alexander's forecast. (21:07)
Johnvlissides says to Lovelybug28: Above All, Though, You Have To Apply Patterns to Learn Them (21:07)
Johnvlissides says to lovelybug28: You can't just read about them (21:07)
Jeffray said to Johnvlissides: i mean is there. (21:07). (21:07)
Qingzuozhou said to everyone: Hi, Mr. Johnvlissides, I Have a quest. (21:08)
Johnvlissides says to Jeffray: I don't have a hard set of rules to give you, Just Advice: you have to apply patterns to leave, 2 (21:08)
Johnvlissides says: Yes Sir (21:09)
Qingzuozhou said to everyone: In Your 23 Design Patterns, They Are Mainly Used to Design Concret Small Components. (21:09)
Qingzuozhou said to everyone: How can I use tres? Are The ANY Design Patterns on Large System based, SMALL PATTERNS? (21:09)
Jeffray said to Johnvlissides: ER? (21:09)
Babysloth said to Johnvlissides: Well, Mr Vlissides, How do you think of mvc? IS IT A Combination OE SEVERAL PATTERNS, A MODEL OR A LARGE PATTERN? (21:09) Lipy said to johnvlissides: Can you tell me how to use COLLECTION MANAGER "? (21:09)
Johnvlissides says: Not Necessarily Small Components, But in General Yes, They Don't address large-scale architectural concerns (21:09)
Lovelybug28 said to Johnvlissides: Thank you, John! I'm very happy you can reply. I'm reading your baby design pattern. (21:10)
Missile said to everyone: nice to meet you! i Like Design Patterns! Thank you! (21:10)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides, PROFESSOR JOHN LISSIDES, I Think The Design Patterns is The Component Of Application Framework, So When You Implment A Framework You NEED TO Concrete Some Design Patterns. (21:10)
Johnvlissides says to lid: Send Me E-mail About it: Vlis@us.ibm.com (21:10)
Jeffray said to Johnvlissides: What's The Relationship Between PARTERNS AND Programming Languages? (21:10)
Johnvlissides said to miss: Glad I Could Help! (21:11)
Jackaroo_yi said to everyone: How to write summary design? (21:11)
PAOFAN said to everyone: PARTERN-Life Program-Language (21:11)
Johnvlissides says to Babysloth: It Does Indeed Embody Several of Our Patterns --- Plus Synergies Between Them, Plus Some Extra stuff (21:11)
PAOFAN said to everyone: Is IT Right? Mr. John. (21:12)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides: Buthen I Abstract The Framework of Software, i offen is in Too Detail, Can You Give Some Advice IT? (21:12)
Jeffray said to Johnvlissides: Or --- IF I Use C , Then I Should Choose XXX PARTERN, IF I Use Java, Then I'd Better Choose Some Othe PARTERNS, IS THAT TRUE? (21:12)
Missile said to everyone: I buy Pattern in a huge project.if no patterns, I dont know how to realise. (21:12)
Qingzuozhou said to everyone: There is no any pattern about building An Application Based on Database IN 23 Patterns, why? (21:12) Johnvlissides said to Huangcy: Yes, You Can Think of it as "instantiarating" a pattern --- But ... (21:12)
Babysloth said to Johnvlissides: SO is MVC Also a pattern? (21:12)
Johnvlissides said to Huangcy: USUALLY THETERN IS JUST A Starting Point from Which To Evolve The Design To Your Own Needs (21:13)
Jackaroo_Yi said to Johnvlissides: Hello Johnvlissides, How to Write (21:13)
Johnvlissides said to PAOFAN: Not Sure I understand What you mean (21:14)
PAOFAN said to everyone: sorry, umlchina (21:14)
Lipy said to Johnvlissides: Could You Provide Me Some Example of Uml Designing, Mr. John? (21:14)
Johnvlissides says to Qingzuozhou: Because None of US Had Enough Experience In Database Applications (21:14)
Jackaroo_yi said to Johnvlissides: Hello Johnvlissides, HOW to WRITE DETAIL DeisGn with uml. (21:15)
Missile said to FCX123: Are you going to write a paterns book about java? (21:15)
Johnvlissides said to Huangcy: What Sort of Detail? (21:15)
Qingzuozhou said to Johnvlissides: There Are no patterns About building An Application Based on Database IN 23 Patterns, why? (21:15)
PAOFAN said to Johnvlissides: Pattern Give Code Life. It is new view about program. (21:15)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides: The pattern is a starting point? what is the real meaning? Excuse me. (21:15)
Johnvlissides said to miss: We've Been Working ON A 2nd Edition of Design Patterns for Several Years (21:15)
Johnvlissides said to miss: And most of the code example area (21:16)
PAOFAN said to Johnvlissides: Alexander Thanks That All Building Have Life Too. (21:16)
Johnvlissides said to missile: (No IDEA WHEN 2ED WILL Be out, but it is don't be soon) (21:16)
Ansen_chen said to everyone: WHEN i use paterns, how can I extend it? (21:16)
Johnvlissides said to Huangcy: In Pattern Hatching I Design A file system api using pattern (21:17) Ansen_chen said to everyone: please give me some advice (21:17)
Lovelybug28 said to Johnvlissides: Now Some People Regard Pattern As Bible.They Think Pattern Can Solve Everything. How do you think of pattern and what is significance for pattern APPEARS? (21:17)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides: Sometimes, I Think The Problem Too Detail, And i Cann't Abstract The Proper Struct from model. And make the framework to detail and reduced its reusablity. (21:17)
Johnvlissides said to huangcy: in more Than Case, a pattern got applied in an unorthodox way (21:17)
Johnvlissides said to Huangcy: And Evolved from there (21:17)
Missile said to Johnvlissides: I Would Like to Waiting for IT, Like Waitting for My Girl Friend! (21:17)
Lipy said to Johnvlissides: Can You Talk about the Object-Oriented Database About UML? (21:17)
Johnvlissides said to Huangcy: Patterns Are Meant To Be Tailored to The Problem At Hand (21:18)
Johnvlissides said to Huangcy: That's why they're not code, but prte (21:18)
Johnvlissides said to Huangcy: They educate you, Empower you to solid the problem with your mind turned on (21:18)
Babysloth said to Johnvlissides: We can Find Some Generic Implements of Singleton, Which We Can Reuse Easily. Buth How About Other Patterns? It Seem That We Can Find Many. (21:18)
Johnvlissides is said to missile: Wow, Now That's a company! (21:18)
Babysloth said to Johnvlissides: Sorry, We cannot Find Many. (21:19)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides: I have not read your
Missile said to Johnvlissides: Will You Write Some About Achetechur? (21:19)
Johnvlissides said to Ansen_Chen: Are you ask how to apply a pattern, or how to amend its description? (21:19) Babysloth said to Huangcy: Pattern Hatching: design Patterns Applied (21:20)
Johnvlissides said to Babysloth: The JDK is Full of Patterns, Particular Composite, Strategy, Template Method, Prototype, Observer, Decorator, Facade, Abstract Factory .... (21:20)
Qingzuozhou said to Johnvlissides: i Want to Know There Any Patterns About Database Applications in 2ed of << Design Pattern >>. (21:21)
Johnvlissides said to huangcy: Pattern Hatching is Part Commentary, Part Tutorial on how to apply patterns, and (21:21)
Babysloth said to Johnvlissides: Yes, WE CAN SEE THE PATTERNS, BUT WE CANNOT Reuse IT Easily Just In Form of a Class, Can We? (21:21)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides: But the framework is the codes, I want to make my framework more abstract, and i think it will make it it more good. (21:22)
Johnvlissides said to Huangcy: Part a behind-the-scenes look at how the four of us develop patterns (21:22
Johnvlissides said to Huangcy: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/flex-sign-in/ref=cm_rate_rev/104-5101538-2496757# #D-REVIEW (21:22)
Johnvlissides says: Nope (21:22)
Johnvlissides said to Qingzuozhou: The Pattern Almanac Has A Good Set of References To Such Patterns (21:22)
Johnvlissides says to Babysloth: People Have Tried --- Me, Even (21:23)
Johnvlissides said to Babysloth: Code Generation Generally Isn't Worth It (21:23)
Qingzuozhou said to Johnvlissides: How can I use patterns to upgrade Old Applications? Give Some Adfficient please (21:23)
Johnvlissides said to Babysloth: Alexandrescu's Templates Work Better (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/asin/0201704315/qid=982783857/104-5101538-2496757) (21:23)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides: I Think it is a good book for me, I am Eager to have selfh book. (21:24) qingzuozhou said: The old system Didn't Designed with o design (21:24)
Babysloth said to Johnvlissides: Do You Mean Modern C Design? (21:24)
Johnvlissides said to Huangcy: Framework Design Is A Whole Area Itself (21:24)
Johnvlissides said to Huangcy: The Best Way to Do It is to build several example of the applications your framework is to target * before * you write the framework (21:24)
Johnvlissides said to Huangcy: The you take a step back and come up with an abstract That Caters to all the applications, and then some (21:25)
Ansen_chen said to everyone: WHEN i use some pattern, how can I extend it and name it deetail? please give me some advice. (21:25)
Johnvlissides said to Babysloth: Correct (21:25)
Ansen_chen said to everyone: WHEN i use some pattern, how can I extend it and name it deetail? please give me some advice. (21:25)
Babysloth said to Johnvlissides: Modern C Design IS Not easy to understand. (21:25)
Johnvlissides says Qingzuozhou: Patterns Are Useful as targets for refactorings (21:25)
Johnvlissides said to Qingzuozhou: Finer-Grain Refactorings Are Even More Fundamentally Useful (21:26)
Johnvlissides says Qingzuozhou: See Fowler's Refactoring Book (21:26)
Lipy said to Johnvlissides: WE Are Changing C Module To C Module, Can you give me some advice? (21:26)
Ansen_chen said to Johnvlissides: WHEN I Use some patterns, how can I extend it and name it Detail? please give me some advice. (21:26)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides: Abstact The Framework from EXISTED SYSTEM? OH, I see Some. Thank you very much. (21:26)
Johnvlissides says to Babysloth: Agreed --- The Template Implementations Are Very Hard To Understand (21:26)
johnvlissides said babysloth: but the templates themselves are pretty easy to use (21:26) babysloth said johnvlissides:?? Why do you choose java in DP 2 / e Have you considered combine Generic Programming and Patterns (21:27)
Babysloth said to Johnvlissides: I like template very much. (21:27)
Qingzuozhou said to Johnvlissides: in the markets, Are there is any Tools integrating the pattern inTo? (21:27)
Johnvlissides says to Ansen_Chen: My Pattern Hatching Book and Shalloway's Design Patterns Explained Have Many Good Examples of Applying Patterns (21:27)
PAOFAN said to Johnvlissides: How About Pattern's Future? (21:28)
Johnvlissides said to lid: why is you change it? (21:28)
Thomas_Guo said to Johnvlissides: What about Your Research Recently? (21:28)
Johnvlissides says to babysloth: we use most Java Because It illustrate, and it's also pop tar (21:28)
Lovelybug28: Johnvlissides said: John, After Pattern, Do you think what would replace it? (21:29)
Lipy said to Johnvlissides: Can you tell me Some Other Good Tool UML EXCEPT ROSE? (21:29)
FCX123 said to Johnvlissides: We don't know how to create pattern. can you tell about the expenence That You create those design pattern? (21:29)
Johnvlissides says to Babysloth: I'm A Big Fan of Generic Programming, by The Way (21:29)
Johnvlissides says to Babysloth: I've worked a bit with krzysztof czarnecki (21:29)
Johnvlissides say: sorry; I don't understand your question (21:30)
Johnvlissides said to PAOFAN: They Certainly Have ON: -) (21:30)
Xf_yes says to everyone: John, When Doing Oo Design, Sometimes I Feel It's Difficult To Control Granularity Of Objects, Do You Have Any Suggestion in this? (21:30)
Lipy said to Johnvlissides: Becauseur Product is Changing to the model of client -server (21:30)
Xf_yes said to everyone: I. WHEN CAN WE SAY: OK, Let's make this abstract an Object? (21:30) Johnvlissides said to PAOFAN: Seriously, The Set of patterns will expedition and will be refined (21:31)
Johnvlissides said to PAOFAN: Patterns Will Be categorized Better (21:31)
Babysloth said to Johnvlissides: OH, I see. I'm Trying to Learn GP now, so interesting! (21:31)
Johnvlissides said to PAOFAN: And more people will use the them (21:31)
Johnvlissides said to XF_YES: a Very Good Point (21:31)
Xf_yes said to everyone: thanks :) john (21:32)
Qingzuozhou said to Johnvlissides: Any Design Tools IMPLEMENTS YOTION PATTERNS AS TEMPLATES? (21:32)
Johnvlissides said to XF_YES: there's a trade-off castWeen granularity / flexibility / cost (21:32)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides said: i Think GP Use THE TEMPLATE TO ABSTRACT THE MODULES, IS IT RIGHT? (21:32)
Socceracer said to Johnvlissides: Is there a pattern language at present? i mean, a Source Language to describe the pattern? (21:32)
Johnvlissides says to XF_YES: The Finer Grain, The More Flexibility, But Generally The Higher The Complexity and Costs, Especial Run-Time and Maintenance Costs (21:32)
Babysloth said to Johnvlissides: Well, Do You Think GP Is A Part of OO (AS ION OOSC), OR A Independent Paradigm? (21:32)
FCX123 said to Johnvlissides: you are one of the famous master of "design pattern", Can you Introduce Some of Your Friends in The Fields? Hope you to give us their homepage or e-mail box. (21:33)
Socceracer said to Johnvlissides: Can We Treat The Pattern in A Formal Way? (21:33)
Babysloth said to Johnvlissides: And Will Patterns Be Combined with GP? (21:33)
Xf_yes said to Johnvlissides: make sense (21:33)
Johnvlissides says to XF_YES: You Should Make It An Object if IT Becomes Clear That It Can Change, and Those Changes Should Ripple Through The System (21:33)
johnvlissides said xf_yes: it should also be a good abstraction, a good metaphor (21:34) beartoy said johnvlissides: I developed a server, but it always throw out of memory exception, it seems stack is not enough, because I used a lot of recurses. Is there s t u (21:34)
PAOFAN said to Johnvlissides: Yeah, More Program Will Infect Future. Infect Every One. (21:34)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides: Prof. Can you tell me What is the main differbetween analysis pattern and design pattern? (21:35)
Xf_yes said to Johnvlissides: BY 'RIPPLE' You Mean The Object's State Change Will Have Influence on Other Part of The System? (21:35)
Johnvlissides says to FCX123: Check Out IBM's Design Page http://www.research.ibm.com/designpatterns/(21:35)
Johnvlissides said to XF_YES: Yes: One Chang Leads to Another, Which Leads To Another, ... (21:36)
FCX123 said to Johnvlissides: Thanks! (21:36)
Lipy said to Johnvlissides: Mr. John Are you living in China now? (21:36)
Babysloth said to Johnvlissides: Thanks Very Much for Giving Me The Permission To Translate Your Column Pattern Hatching Into Chinese. SHOULD I send you a electronic version of the second article to you? (21:36)
Ansen_chen said to Babysloth: Hi, I am Beginner.gp is gener patter, is right? (21:36)
Qingzuozhou said to Johnvlissides: with my experiences, useing pattern offen make system more completed and more cots, how avoid That? (21:36)
Johnvlissides said to Beartoy: Replace (Some) Recursion with Iteration. Also It Might Help To Increase The VM's Heap Size (21:37)
Babysloth said to Johnvlissides: THEN You CAN Make IT Available Online? (21:37)
Johnvlissides said to Babysloth: I'm Sure Patterns of GP Will Emerge (That's What I Was Talking to Krzysztof About) (21:37)
johnvlissides said socceracer: lots of people have tried to formalize patterns, most notable Amnon Eden (try a Google search) (21:38) paofan said johnvlissides:. how about culture IBM join in Linux and Java group, Is it hint the Big Blue Will Be More Open. (21:38)
Babysloth said to Johnvlissides: SO is "traits" a pattern of gp? (21:38)
Johnvlissides say: NOPE, I'M in Ny (But I'd Certainly Like to Visit China) (21:39)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides: Can you tell me what the Typical Processes WHEN WHEN WHEN WHEN WHEN WHEN WHEN WHEN WHEN WHEN WHEN WHEN WHEN WHEN WHENNETTERN AND analysis PATTERN TO AnalySIS AND DESIGN A SOFTWARE SYSTEM? (21:39)
Johnvlissides say: My Father Visited in 1972, Right AfTer Nixon! (21:39)
Johnvlissides said to QingzuoZhou: Use pattern ONLY WHEN THEIR BENEFITS OUTWEigh THEIR COSTS (21:39)
Johnvlissides said to Qingzuozhou: Only you can assess what trade-off (21:39)
Johnvlissides said to Ansen_Chen: Correct (21:40)
FCX123 said to Johnvlissides: Prof. Design Pattern is Temppate of Od Solution, "Design Pattern", "Analysis Pattern" Are Very Hot Nowdays. Can you Introduce Some Other Pattern in Computer World? (21:40)
Johnvlissides said to Babysloth: please do send it (21:40)
SoCceracer said to Johnvlissides: Thank you. (21:41)
PAOFAN said to Johnvlissides: Is MicrSoft and IBM Repesent Two Ways. (21:41)
Johnvlissides said to PAOFAN: IBM is Big Into Open Source (21:41)
Lipy said to Johnvlissides: i am in a large company named Neusoft Corporation, i like to meet you at you come to china. (21:41)
FCX123 said to Johnvlissides: Sorry, Not "Temppate" But "Template" (21:41)
Johnvlissides says to Babysloth: Yes. I'd call it an idiom, in jim coplien's sense (21:41)
Babysloth said to Johnvlissides: ok. I have to get now, and i'll see the discussion latlec. (21:41)
Johnvlissides said to Huangcy: Wow, That's a big question (21:42) Babysloth said to Johnvlissides: i really appreicate your help. (21:42)
Johnvlissides said to Huangcy: I Like the Way Extreme Programming Uses patterns (21:42)
Supperapplication said to everyone:: Can you tell me What is The Typical Processes WHEN WHENWETTERN AND analysis PATTERN TO AnalySIS AND DESIGN A SOFTWARE SYSTEM? (21:42)
Lipy said to Johnvlissides: I want to write letter to you late, can you be tired of me? (21:42)
Thomas_Guo said to Johnvlissides: SHOULD WE Think In Pattern Whiling Designing? (21:42)
Johnvlissides said to Huangcy: I'll Have to Defer to The Book on That Subject (21:42)
Frankx said to everyone: hi, all (21:43)
Johnvlissides said to PAOFAN: Not Sure What You Mean by "Repesent Two Ways" (21:43)
FCX123 said to everyone: please slowly!: -) (21:43)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides :-), IT Look Some Big, I Just Want Some Main and critical Processes. (21:43)
Johnvlissides said to lid: love to! (21:43)
Thomas_Guo said: sorry. (21:43)
J2ME said to Johnvlissides: Dear John, You Said "Use Patterns ONLY WHEN THEENFITS OUTWEIGH THEIR COSTS", But in Which Way We Can Know if it brings more benifit or cost to us? (21:44)
Thomas_Guo said to Johnvlissides: SHOULD WE Think In Pattern Whiling Designing? (21:44)
FCX123 said to everyone: please ask Question One by one!: -) (21:44)
PAOFAN said to Johnvlissides: Monopolize Way and Open Way (21:44)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides: Which of your books talk about this subject? (21:44)
Johnvlissides said to Supperapplication: A Big Question (21:44)
Johnvlissides said to Supperapplication: i Like The Way Extreme Programming Applies Patterns (21:44)
Johnvlissides said to Supperapplication: Have to Defer to Those Books ... (21:44)
Johnvlissides say: Good quest (21:45)
Johnvlissides said to J2ME: I Think The key is small orthopes of development (21:45) Huangcy said to Johnvlissides: Thank you. I will wait for your book. (21:45)
Johnvlissides said to J2ME: You Introduce Patterns when you find you need the flexibility, not in all the flexibility, not in anticipation of support
Lovelybug28 said to Johnvlissides: John, How do you think of xp? (21:46)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides: Can You Advise Some Books About this Topic? Thank you. (21:46)
Johnvlissides says to J2ME: if You Iterate Your Builds Quickly Enough, You'll Get The Design Accordingly Faster (21:46)
Johnvlissides said to PAOFAN: OH, I see (21:47)
Johnvlissides said to PAOFAN: Well, They're Both Business Out To Make Money (21:47)
Cancan said to Johnvlissides: Can you tell me how to use design pattern in erp system? (21:47)
Johnvlissides says to PAOFAN: One Has Tighter Control on The Consumer Market Than the other (21:47)
Johnvlissides said to PAOFAN: And One Has Tighter Control on The Large-Scale Commerce Market (21:47)
PAOFAN said to Johnvlissides: But They Can Control "Hack" (21:47)
Sealw said to Johnvlissides: I think the core of xp is to code as so of as possible, the make "patches". What's your oppinion? (21:48)
PAOFAN said to Johnvlissides: SO IBM Will Be Always "BIG". But Another Will Die in The Future. (21:48)
Johnvlissides said to Huangcy: If You're Into Process, Check Out The Extreme Programming Books and Also Larman's Applying UML and Patterns Book (A New Edition IS OUT) (21:48)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides: Some One Think The Software Architecture As Architecture Pattern, What's your view About it? (21:49)
Johnvlissides says to LovelyBug28: I Think XP is Great, Particularly for Small-to-Midsize Projects Will Ill-Defined Requirements (21:49)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides: Thank you, I will. (21:49) Johnvlissides say: I'm Afraid Not --- Not Anything Specific To ERP Systems, Anyway (21:50)
Johnvlissides said to PAOFAN: "Control 'Hack'"? (21:50)
Sealw said to Johnvlissides: MOST Projects Have Ill-Defined Requirement. (21:50)
Johnvlissides said to Sealw: NO, I Think The Core of XP Are The Five Principles: (21:51)
Johnvlissides is said to Sealw: Rapid Feedback, Assume SIMPLITY, INCREMENTAL CHANGE, EMBRACING CHANGE, AND QUALITY WORK (21:51)
PAOFAN said to Johnvlissides: Yeah, I Feel U Are Doing Missionary Work. (21:51)
Johnvlissides said to Huangcy: Architectural Patterns Are Part of the Basis for Software Architecture (21:52)
SocCeracer said to Johnvlissides: i always think nothing will come to a precise condition until the isy a factoryized. How do you think About pattern? (21:52)
Johnvlissides said to Huangcy: They themselves aren't Software Architecture (21:52)
PAOFAN said to Johnvlissides: in pattern way, very open. (21:52)
J2ME said to Johnvlissides: I think That The Most of the Benifits That Patertns Bring to US IS APPEARED DURING THE REBUILDING PROCESS, RIGHT? (21:52)
FCX123 said to everyone: Slowly, please! (21:52)
Johnvlissides said to Sealw: actual not; The Bigger the project, The Better The Requirements Usually Are (21:52)
Sealw said to Johnvlissides: Yes, You are right. Many Program in China Are MisLED by rup ... (21:53)
Johnvlissides said to Sealw: The Flight Control Software for The Space Shuttle, for Example, Had Very Specific Requirements (21:53)
Pnren said to everyone: Somepeople SAY THE WIN2000 IS Designed Specially For Going Into Net, Is That True? (21:54)
huangcy said johnvlissides: I read some book about software architecture, It just give me some Architecture styles, I think they just is architecture pattern but as you say, What the software arch (21:54) johnvlissides said socceracer:. I tend To agree. but you can set concrete example from which to abstract (21:54)
PAOFAN said to Johnvlissides said: SO Some Innocence People Will Become Believer from "Hack". (21:55)
Johnvlissides says to Socceracer: RUP is Good for What., Bigger Projects with a good hand on the requests (21:55)
Johnvlissides said to J2ME: You mean "refactoring process"? "rebuilding" HAS a Different Connotation Around here Right About now ... (21:55)
Johnvlissides said to Pnren: I don't know howl or real thing is IS (21:56)
Johnvlissides said to Pnren: It's an operating system, after all (21:56)
Sealw said to Johnvlissides: Yes. In Mature Industry, Requests Usually Are More Specific. But in China, MOST Are Amature. (21:56)
Johnvlissides said to PNREN: Is UNIX Any Less Net-Worthy? (21:56)
SoCceracer said to Johnvlissides: How do you think of the zed notation? (21:56)
Sealw said to Johnvlissides: You can Seldom Meet Field Experts in China. User Don't Know What THEY WANT. (21:57)
Pnren said to johnvlissides: no (21:57)
PAOFAN said to Johnvlissides: Chinese Programers CAN't Co-Work In A Team. (21:58)
Johnvlissides said to SocceraCer: I've Never Used Z myself, but i've seen it used. (21:58)
Johnvlissides says to Socceracer: It Appears to Be One of the Most Popular Logic Notations out there (21:58)
Johnvlissides says to Sealw: They'll Figure Out, with time (21:58)
PAOFAN said to Johnvlissides: Pattern Way Will Change Them. (21:58)
huangcy said johnvlissides: You say architecture patterns arenot software architecture, then What is software architecture I just think it is the component and connection, and they setup the system (21:59) lipy said johnvlissides:? I will go now, I 'm Glad to meet you tonight.beest regards. (21:59)
Johnvlissides said to PAOFAN: Why Can't Chinese Programmers Cooperate? (21:59)
Pnren said to Johnvlissides: I am Studying Linux on Myself Now, I think it is very complex, isn't ket? (21:59)
Johnvlissides said to Pnren: Hey, It's an Operating System! (22:00)
Johnvlissides said to PNREN: Pleasure's Mine (22:00)
Socceracer said to everyone: Would you please tell me in which field you find zed notation is buy? (22:00)
Johnvlissides said to Pnren: OOPS! That Was Meant for Someone else (22:00)
Johnvlissides says to lid: PLLEs Mine! (22:00)
Sealw said to Johnvlissides: Yes. Time will make US $ up. (22:00)
PAOFAN said to Johnvlissides: They Think "Hack" IS Clever. The Destroy Something in Foolish Way. (22:00)
PAOFAN said to Johnvlissides: Not to build Something. (22:01)
Pnren said to Johnvlissides,: Yes, My Teacher Has Tole US IT Is a Very Popular OS, SO I Want To Study It (22:01)
Johnvlissides says to Socceracer: I'VE Seen It Used to ProveTyChecking Properties and In Security Applications, Particularly Cryptography (22:01)
PAOFAN said to Johnvlissides: They Hit Big, Because the isy isy. (22:01)
Babysloth said to Johnvlissides: I'm back. When Will Pattern Hatch 2 / e comser out? I'm loops forward to it. (22:02)
FCX123 said to Johnvlissides: Question ONCE MORE: Can you tell About The Difernce of "Analysis Pattern" and "design pattern"? (22:02)
Johnvlissides said to Sealw: I Was Referring to All of US, Not Just China! (22:02)
Johnvlissides said to Sealw: Software Technology is Still in Its Infancy (22:02) Sealw to Johnvlissides said: for example? (22:03)
Johnvlissides says to FCX123: Analysis Patterns Capture Common Solutions To Recuringer Domain Modeling Problems (22:03)
Johnvlissides says to FCX123: Design Patterns Capture Common Solutions To Recurring Program Design Problems (22:03)
Johnvlissides said to FCX123: IHIGHLY Recommend Studying Linux (22:03)
FCX123 said to Johnvlissides: Great! (22:03)
Johnvlissides says to FCX123: Haven't Thought Much About A FOLLOW-ON To PATTERN Hatching (22:04)
Johnvlissides says to FCX123: I'VE Thought More About Publishing a Collection of "Compound Patterns" (22:04)
PAOFAN said to Johnvlissides: Are there is links Between patter and linux? ;; -) (22:04)
Sealw said to Johnvlissides: SO What Shall We Study in Linux? and what will we learn? (22:04)
Johnvlissides said to FCX123: I wrote a lot about them in My Column In C Report (22:04)
Babysloth said to Johnvlissides: SO What's "Compound PTTERNS" LIKE? COULD You Please Say More About The New Book? (22:05)
Johnvlissides says to Sealw: Look How much time it Took for the traditional engineering disciplines to developmental Engineering Disciplines to develop (100s or 1000s of years) (22:06)
Johnvlissides said to Sealw: We've Writing Software for, What, 50 Years? (22:06)
Babysloth said to Johnvlissides: How About Adding The Articles AFTER 1998 of The Column TO PH 2 / E? (22:06)
Sealw said to Johnvlissides: It's said the code Quality of linux is not as good as there is freebsd. (22:06)
Johnvlissides said to Babysloth: Re: Compound patterns, check out the corresponding articles at http://www.research.ibm.com/designpatterns/publications.htm#articles (22:07)
Johnvlissides says to Babysloth: It's not a project yet, btw; Just An IDEA (22:07)
Sealw said to Johnvlissides: Yes. It's the Benifits of Open Source Software, Not Only Linux. (22:07) Johnvlissides says pairs PAOFAN: I don't know, item linux, internals to point out any patterns (22:08)
Johnvlissides said to PAOFAN: But I'm Sure The 'Ree There (22:08)
Johnvlissides says to Sealw: It's always a good idea to study exemplary software (22:09)
Johnvlissides is said to Sealw: It's the fastest way to leave to write exemplary Software yourself (22:09)
Johnvlissides says to Babysloth: You Think Like a Book Author! (22:09)
FCX123 said to Johnvlissides: We don't know how to create pattern. can you tell about the expenence That You create Those Design Pattern? (22:09)
J2ME said to Johnvlissides said: We can Learn Much Experience from other engineering fields to improve our software enginerring (22:10)
Johnvlissides said to Sealw: I don't know their relative QUALITY (22:10)
Sealw said to Johnvlissides: Yes. I Was Stunned When I SAW You Gave So Many Example System in Your Book. (22:10)
Thomas_Guo said to Johnvlissides: SO Open Source Is Great. (22:10)
Lovelybug28: Sorry, John, Personal Question: Did You Stay in NY 09/11? and were you near? wtc on what day? (22:10)
FCX123 said to everyone: ONE BY, PLEASE! (22:10)
Johnvlissides says: Agreed. I'm an electrical engineer by training, with some work experience in civil engineering (22:10)
PAOFAN said to everyone: a. W e b S i t e. d E V o T E d. t o .. R e b u I l D i n g. t h e. e a r t h h h h http://www.patternlanguage.com/(22:11)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides: Is Analysis Pattern Concern Of Domain Analysis? (22:11)
Sealw said to Johnvlissides: Example Is Not Another Way of Study. It's the only way. (22:11)
FreeSpark said to everyone: Sorry, Someone Call Me.bye (22:11)
Johnvlissides say: Yes, I was in the parking lot of my office when I heard the news (22:12) Babysloth said: OHNVLISSIDES: OH? UM, I'm Just A 19-YEAH-OLD Student. (22: 12)
Johnvlissides says to Lovelybug28: (We're About 30 Miles from Ground Zero (22:12)
Johnvlissides said to PAOFAN: Thanks for the Link! (22:12)
Babysloth said to Johnvlissides: Sorry, 19-Year-Old. (22:13)
Johnvlissides said to Huangcy: Certainly! (22:13)
D_jt said to everyone: The Difference Between Analysis Pattern and Design Pattern? (22:13)
Freeman99 said to Johnvlissides: Is Rose The Best Tool for Modeling The Software's Architecture (22:13)
PAOFAN said to Johnvlissides: no at all (22:13)
Johnvlissides said to FreeSpark: Okay, See Ya (22:13)
Johnvlissides says to Sealw: OR at Least a Very Good Way; -) (22:13)
Windy.j said to everyone: Since the book "Design Pattern (22:14)
Johnvlissides said to Babysloth: I wouldn't say "just" a 19-year-old student (22:14)
J2ME said to FCX123: I Think Patterns Are Not Created, They Are Accumulation of The Former Experience of Software Development. (22:14)
FCX123 said to everyone: Can you give us a few best "design pattern" (URL) ResOUces? (22:14)
Johnvlissides says to Babysloth: Keep Up The Good Work That I Know You're Doing! (22:14)
PAOFAN said to Johnvlissides: "The Nature of Order Offers A Golden Thread That Connects The Innermost Center of Who We are as humans with the physical environment." (22:15)
PAOFAN said to Johnvlissides: this is Chinese way. (22:15)
Johnvlissides says to D_JT: Analysis Patterns Capture Common Solutions To Recurring Problems in Domain Modeling (22:15)
Johnvlissides said to D_JT: Design Patterns Capture Common Solutions to Recurring Problems in Program Design (22:15)
Johnvlissides said to J2ME: Precisely (22:15)
D_JT said to Johnvlissides: The Difference Between Analysis Pattern and Design Pattern? please (22:15) Johnvlissides say: Check Out the patterns Home Page ... (22:16)
Johnvlissides said to FCX123: http://hillside.net/patterns/(22:16)
Goldarcher said to Umlchina: could you keep down the TRACK RECORD of this chat? (22:16)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides: But if it is true, the analyysis pattern can just be reuse, is more connector, isn't it? (22:16)
FCX123 said to Johnvlissides: Thank you very much! (22:16)
Johnvlissides said to PAOFAN: Yes. Alexander Was Very Much INSPIRED by Chinese Culture (22:16)
Freeman99 said to Johnvlissides: Does your book cover j2ee design pattern? (22:17)
PAOFAN said to Johnvlissides: Thanks, But We don't Know, Chinese guy. (22:17)
Johnvlissides said to Huangcy: I'm Not Sure What A "Domain Framework" is (22:17)
Babysloth said to Johnvlissides: Well, There's so much course to take! (22:17)
Lovelybug28 said to Johnvlissides: It's company fortunate you are not attacked.;) (22:17)
D_JT to Johnvlissides, said: I am Familiar with design pattern by your book, can you in Introduce Some Analysis Pattern Books? (22:17)
Johnvlissides says to FCX123: You're Welcome! (22:17)
FCX123 is said to Johnvlissides: Again, we don't know how to create pattern. Can you tell about the expenence That You create Those design Pattern? (22:18)
Johnvlissides says to Freeman99: Nope. But there's a new book of patterns for j2ee ... (22:18)
J2ME said to Johnvlissides: Maybe We Can Said XX Patterns Capture Common Solutions To Recurring Problems in xx Field:) (22:18)
Johnvlissides says to Freeman99: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/asin/0130648841/qid=997452753/104-5101538-2496757 (22:18)
Johnvlissides says to lovebug28: I'm Very Thankful Indeed ... But Many Others Wern't So Blessed (22:19) Windy.j To Johnvlissides: Since The Book (DP) Published, There Have Been More And More Patterns Now COULD you give us some advice to those patterns Learning? (22:19)
Johnvlissides says to Lovelybug28: The Most Popular Book Is Fowler's Analysis Patterns (22:19)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides: in My IDEA, The Domain Framework Is Just Vertical Framework and is Reuse for the Same Domain 'System. (22:20)
Johnvlissides say: OOps, Meant That for Someone else ... (22:20)
Johnvlissides said to D_JT: The Most Popular Book is Fowler's Analysis Patterns (22:20)
Johnvlissides said to D_JT: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201895420/QID=1000995590/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_3_1/104-5101538-2496757 (22:20)
SoCceracer said to Johnvlissides: How do you think of Differences Between Applying Patterns in a More Formalized Software Engineering Method (for EXAMPLE: CLEANROOM) AND A LESS FORMALIZED ONE (12:20)?
Johnvlissides said to J2ME: That's Not Wrong! (22:20)
Freeman99 said to Johnvlissides: oh.can the pattern number in your book be Well Implement Into J2EE PROJECTS? (22:20)
Johnvlissides says to Windy.j: The Best Way to Learn Patterns Is To Apply Them --- As Needed, Not Preemptively (22:21)
Johnvlissides says to Windy.j: Finding Patterns is Another Matter (22:21)
Johnvlissides says to Windy.j: a help there it pattern almanac (22:22)
Johnvlissides said to Windy.j: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/asin/0201615673/qid=960385247/104-5101538-2496757 (22:22)
Johnvlissides said to Huangcy: Okay ... (22:22)
D_JT said to Johnvlissides: I have a problem in useing stl.complex
Lovelybug28: John, What Language Do You Mostly Use? C , Java, or Others? (22:22) Johnvlissides say: The Bigger The Project, The More Formality You NEED (22:22)
Johnvlissides said to SocceraCer: Bigger Projects Tend to Have Better-KNown Requirements, TOO (22:23)
Johnvlissides said to freeman99: Surely; See http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/asin/0130648841/qid=997452753/104-5101538-2496757 (22:23)
D_JT said to Johnvlissides: i use state pattern singleton pattern.but not fit patter well (22:23)
Pega said to everyone: BYE All (22:23)
Pega said to everyone: Exit Now (22:24)
Windy.j said to Johnvlissides: Thanks a Lot! (22:24)
FCX123 said to Johnvlissides: Can You Tell About User Interface Design Pattern? (22:24)
Johnvlissides says to D_JT: I'm Afraid I'm NOT An Stl Expert. I don't use c Anymore, (slightly) sorry to say (22:24)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides: SO, MY PROBLEM IS How Can Analysis Pattern Make Itself Reuse? (22:24)
Johnvlissides says to Lovelybug28: Java, by far --- although I'm not doing Heavy-duty programming these dayd (22:24)
Johnvlissides says to Lovelybug28: I'm getting old, i guess (22:24)
D_JT said to Johnvlissides: The HOW Do You Solve this Problem in dp? (22:25)
Freeman99 said to Johnvlissides: How Can I Design Distributed Applications? Little Book Has Covered Topic. (22:25)
Socceracer said to Johnvlissides: Can You Give US Your Home Page Address? (22:25)
Johnvlissides said to Pega: Bye, Pega (22:25)
Johnvlissides said to Windy.j: Welcome! (22:25)
Johnvlissides says to FCX123: Very Interesting Area. Jenifer Tidwell At Mit Has Been Doing a Lot of That Work (22:26)
Johnvlissides says to FCX123: Look for Her on Google (22:26)
Babysloth said to Johnvlissides: Well, Everyone is getting Old. (22:26)
Johnvlissides says to D_JT: IT IF Don't Fit, Then Don't use it! (22:26)
The FCX123 said to Johnvlissides: Great! (22:26) Huangcy said to Johnvlissides: Yeah, More Framework and design Pattern Is About ui design. (22:27)
Johnvlissides said to huangcy: Like Any Other Patterns, Analysis Patterns Won't Guarantee Reuse. Analysis Patterns in Particular Won't Guarantee Code Reuse (22:27)
Johnvlissides said to Huangcy: But They May Save You Having to Reinvent A Domain Model or Two (22:27)
Lovelybug28 said to Johnvlissides: How old are you, john. But you have powerful weght in programing. (22:27)
D_JT said to Johnvlissides: What's the Latest Evolve in dp? (22:28)
Johnvlissides said to everyone: all: my home point, http://www.research.ibm.com/people/v/vlis/(22:28)
Windy.j said to Johnvlissides: Excuse Me, Do you also know Much About Analysis patterns? (22:28)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides: I Think Analysis Pattern Just for Analysis Reuse, I Think It Came from Domain Analysis, ISN '' t (22:28)
Johnvlissides say: i Just Turned 40 on 2 August! (22:28)
FCX123 said to Johnvlissides: Can You Tell About The Expriences That You Create Those Design Pattern? (22:29)
Babysloth said to Johnvlissides: How Can We Tell IDioms from patterns? (22:29)
Johnvlissides says to D_JT: Well, People Are COMING UP WITH NEW PATTERNS AND PATTERN LANGUAGES All The Time (22:29)
Socceracer said to Johnvlissides: Thank you, john. (22:29)
Johnvlissides said to D_JT: PLOP 2001 Just Took Place (9/11 Was The First Day: - ((22:29)
Johnvlissides says to Babysloth: IDioms Are Simple Patterns That Are Specific To a Programming Language (22:30)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides: I think so, analyysis pattern accelerate the domain model. (22:30)
Johnvlissides says to Babysloth: They Teach You How To Use a particular language like an expert; they help make you "flunt" (22:30)
PAOFAN said to everyone: Had u meet with chirstopher alexander. (22:30) D_JT to johnvlissides say: i think The core part of dp is composition and virtual inherit, do you agree? (22:30)
Johnvlissides said to SocceraCer: Welcome! (22:30)
Johnvlissides said to PAOFAN: I Met Alexander At Oopsla '96 (22:31)
Johnvlissides says to D_JT: NO, I'm Afraid I don't agree (22:32)
Johnvlissides says to D_JT: i Guess IT Depends on What You Mean by "Core Part" (22:32)
Johnvlissides said to D_JT: Virtual Inheritance Is Too C - Specific (22:32)
Johnvlissides says to D_JT: Composition is an important part, as is delegation (22:32)
Socceracer said to Johnvlissides: i Have Just See Your Photo. The baby be your son; he is very lovely. (22:32)
D_JT said to Johnvlissides: i mean the tech part pattern us (22:32)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides: Again, I Think Analysis Pattern Just for Analysis Reuse, I think it Came from Domain Analysis, ISN 'ket? (22:32)
Johnvlissides says to D_JT: But All these Things Are About Implementation (22:32)
Johnvlissides says to D_JT: Patterns Are Equally About Describing Problems (22:33)
Johnvlissides says to D_JT: The Biggest Problem People Face Is The "Don't Know What Problems Have Been Solved Before (22:33)
Johnvlissides said to SocceraCer: Thank you! He's Nearly 8 years old now. (22:33)
PAOFAN said to Johnvlissides: a long time ago. (22:34)
Johnvlissides said to Huangcy: Yes, That's Right (22:34)
D_JT said to Johnvlissides: That Means Pattern Related To Question ONLY? (22:34)
Niwalker said to everyone: hi, everyone (22:34)
Johnvlissides said to PAOFAN: Yes. IT WAS a Privilege to meet him. (22:35)
Johnvlissides said to Niwalker: Hi! (22:35)
PAOFAN said to Johnvlissides: I am Very Excite Today. The Internet Make My Dream Realize. Meet U, MR JONE. (22:36)
Johnvlissides said to Niwalker: no, they don't relate just to qustions (22:36)
Johnvlissides said to Niwalker: Pattern Have Several Benefits: (22:36)
Johnvlissides said to Niwalker: They Exposit Proven Solutions To Recurring Problems (22:36)
D_JT said to Johnvlissides: What else Then? (22:36)
Johnvlissides said to Niwalker: Their names form a vocabulary (22:36)
Johnvlissides said to Niwalker: The Provide Targets for Refactoring (22:36)
Huangcy said to Johnvlissides: Nice to Talk with you, But I Must Go, Thank you for this can spend your critical time on talking with us. (22:37)
Johnvlissides says to Niwalker: and the can validate approaches you're unsure of (22:37)
Johnvlissides said to Niwalker: OOPS! All this was meant for someone else. sorry! (22:37)
Johnvlissides said to D_JT: Patterns Have Several Benefits: (22:38)
Johnvlissides says to D_JT: They Exposit Proven Solutions To Recurring Problems (22:38)
D_JT said to Johnvlissides: please (22:38)
Johnvlissides says to D_JT: Their Names Form A Vocabulary for Discussion (22:38)
Johnvlissides said to D_JT: The Provide targets for refactoring (22:38)
Johnvlissides says to D_JT: and the can value of (22:38)
Johnvlissides said to Huangcy: My Pleasure! (22:38)
Niwalker said to everyone: I Like DPB, John, DID U WRITE New Version of this book? (22:39)
Johnvlissides said to PAOFAN: a pleasure meet you, PAOFAN. Isn't Technology (Mostly) Wonderful? (22:39)
Johnvlissides said to Niwalker: HMM, Not Sure Which book you mean. (22:40)
PAOFAN said to Johnvlissides: Yeah! and Tomorrow, I will meet sun's scott mcnealy in plan, (22:40)
D_JT said to Johnvlissides: please explain refactoring (22:40)
Johnvlissides said to PAOFAN: WHOA! (22:40)
Niwalker said to everyone: I mean desing patterns (22:40)
Johnvlissides said to PAOFAN: Refactoring Is The Art of Changing Code Incrementally To Make It Better without Changing ITS Function (22:41)
Johnvlissides said to Niwalker: We've Been Working ON A 2nd Edition for Years. No Estimated Time of Arrival, I'm AfRAID. (22:41) PAOFAN said to Johnvlissides: Re-build a java center in china. (22: 41)
Niwalker said to everyone: I C, thanks (22:42)
Johnvlissides said to PAOFAN: Why is it being rebuilt? What happened to the original? (22:42)
D_JT said to Johnvlissides: Interface? Alike? (22:43)
Johnvlissides said to D_JT: OOPS, I responded to the Wrong Person. (22:44)
Umlchina said to Johnvlissides: Talk Something Private? as you son matthaw, and Erich gamma ... (22:44)
Johnvlissides says to D_JT: refactoring is the art of changing code incrementally to make it it better without changing its function (22:44)
PAOFAN said to Johnvlissides: Fail for Lots of Reason. The Most Important, There no enough Java Human Resource in Shanghai. (22:45)
Johnvlissides said to Umlchina: Do you want me to Broadcast Something About my Son and Erich? (22:45)
Niwalker said to everyone: I HAVE CHINESE EDIT Design Patterns, Can U Tell me WHERE CAN I get english? (22:45)
Johnvlissides said to PAOFAN: And The rest of the world, for try matter! (22:45)
Umlchina said to Johnvlissides: Up to you. we are your fans (22:45)
D_JT said to Johnvlissides: i know, thank you (22:45)
Johnvlissides said to Niwalker: try http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/asin/0201633612/104-5101538-2496757 (22:46)
Umlchina said to Johnvlissides: And has interte ... (22:46)
PAOFAN said to Johnvlissides: Haha (22:46)
NiX00000 said to Johnvlissides: Can You Explain The Refactoring More Detaily? (22:46)
Johnvlissides said to everyone: Umlchina Suggests I Talk About Erich Gamma --- Nice Things, of Course: -) (22:46)
Niwalker said to Johnvlissides: OK, I'll Try, THX John (22:47)
Johnvlissides says to NiX00000: refactoring is the art of change code incrementally to make it it better without Changing its function (22:47)
D_JT said to Johnvlissides: Go on Please (22:47) Johnvlissides said to everyone: Erich is from switzerland, but he loock italian. (22:48)
Johnvlissides said to everyone: there's a photo of us US at http://www.research.ibm.com/designpatterns/pubs/ddj-eip-award.htm (22:49)
Socceracer said to Johnvlissides: i Must Go Now. BYE, John. Best Wishes for you and your family! (22:50)
Johnvlissides said to everyone: (We're a bit younger the) (22:50)
D_JT said to Johnvlissides: Can you give us some advice in domain of software? (22:50)
Johnvlissides said to SoCceraCer: Thanks, Socceracer. Nice Talking to you! (22:50)
FCX123 said to Johnvlissides: Professor, Would You please Tell About The Direction of Object-Oriented. (22:51)
Johnvlissides says to D_JT: Fowler's Book on The Subject Catalogs a Few Dozen Refactorings You CAN Apply To your code Immediately to Improve ITS Structure and Readability (22:51)
NiX00000 said to Johnvlissides: Which One is you in the photo? (22:52)
Johnvlissides said to everyone: See the Caption (I'm 3rd from left) (22:52)
Johnvlissides says to NiX00000: See the Caption (I'm 3rd from Left) (22:53)
Johnvlissides said to D_JT: What Kind of Advice? (22:53)
Johnvlissides says to D_JT: (Your Question is Very General) (22:53)
Johnvlissides said to D_JT: Here's Some General Advice: (22:53)
Johnvlissides said to D_JT: Fear Complexity (22:54)
D_JT said to Johnvlissides: Success Experience About you (22:54)
NiX00000 said to Johnvlissides: Can You Say Something About The Interface? (22:54)
Johnvlissides says to D_JT: Seek Good Abstractions, But Only Where You're Sure The'll Help (22:54)
PAOFAN said to Johnvlissides: James Gosling is Also a pattern chiliast? (22:55)
D_JT said to johnvlissides: Good mustache you have. (22:55)
Johnvlissides says to D_JT: Avoid Premature Optimization; Optimize Algorithms First, Then Program Structure, Then Statements-Level (22:55)
Johnvlissides said to D_JT: Optimization Must Be Driven by Objective Means (E.G., Profiling At the Statement Level) (22:56) J2ME said to Johnvlissides: i Must Go Now, Thank you, Bye:) (22:56)
Johnvlissides said to D_JT: Read as Much code as you can (22:56)
Windy.j said to johnvlissides: :) Did you four see the later hot sale when you wrote the book? (22:56)
Johnvlissides says to D_JT: How much code you write it, isn't as important as how much code you throw away (22:56)
Johnvlissides said to D_JT: (i can go on all days!) (22:56)
Johnvlissides says to D_JT: My Pleasure, J2ME! (22:57)
D_JT said to Johnvlissides: Thanks (22:57)
Lovelybug28 said to Johnvlissides: John, you r the fourth from left !!! (22:57)
Johnvlissides said to J2ME: My Pleasure, J2ME! (22:57)
Johnvlissides said to D_JT: OOPS! That last message Was meant for someone else (22:57)
FCX123 said to Johnvlissides: Professor, STILL SO MANY PEOPLE! Is it your lunch time? (22:57)
Johnvlissides says to Lovelybug28: OOPS! You're Right! (22:57)
Johnvlissides said to everyone: Lovelybug28 points out what I'm foursh from the left in the photo (22:58)
Johnvlissides said to everyone: Silly Me! (22:58)
Lovelybug28 said to Johnvlissides::) (22:58)
Johnvlissides said to everyone: (Thanks, Lovelybug28) (22:58)
NiX00000 said to Johnvlissides: You Have a Wonderful Smile,: -) (22:59)
Johnvlissides says to FCX123: I'm happy to stay on for another 10 minutes or su (22:59)
Johnvlissides says to FCX123: this is get fun! (22:59)
D_JT said to Johnvlissides: Much Younger Than the 3rd One (22:59)
Umlchina said to Johnvlissides: The Most Handsome One in the photo (22:59)
FCX123 said to everyone: Last One Minutes! You Can ask Only One Question!: -) (23:00)
Johnvlissides said to everyone: Maybe It Was a Freudian Slip --- Just Me Wanting to BE Erich! :-): -) (23:00)
Johnvlissides said to UMLCHINA: C'Mon now! (23:00)
Johnvlissides said to NiX00000: Thanks! You Guys Are Too Much! (23:00) PAOFAN said to Johnvlissides: Thanks! Mr. Jhon, Welcom to China. (23:01)
Babysloth said to Johnvlissides: An Excellent Lesson from you! Thanks !!! (23:01)
FCX123 said to Johnvlissides: Thank you very much! we all hope to read your new book soon!: -) (23:02)
Johnvlissides said to PAOFAN: Thank you, PAOFAN. (23:02)
D_JT said to Johnvlissides: when'll you come to china? (23:02)
Johnvlissides says to FCX123: ME TOO!; -) (23:02)
PAOFAN said to Johnvlissides: u a great. (23:02)
NiX00000 said to Johnvlissides: Professor, Can You Some Things About Interface (My Last Question) (23:02)
Babysloth said to Johnvlissides: Looking Forward to your new book (23:02)
Johnvlissides said to D_JT: Alas, No Plans Anytime Soon. I'll Be Happy To Make It To Oopsla in Tampa, Florida, Next Month. (23:02)
D_JT said to Johnvlissides: New book shouth home good example (23:03)
Johnvlissides says to NiX00000: Interfaces Are Critical to System Design, But They Can Slow You Down If The're Frozen Too Early. (23:03)
D_JT said to Johnvlissides: i hate the maze (23:03)
Johnvlissides said to NIX00000: In Fact, Interface Evolution IS An Important Area of Research. In case you're interested.; -) (23:03)
Lovelybug28 said to Johnvlissides: Nice to chat with you. Thank you, john. (23:04)
Johnvlissides said to D_JT: Agreed. The Maze Wasn't my IDEA. (23:04)
Johnvlissides says to Lovelybug28: And Thank you, especially for all the kind word! (23:04)
Babysloth said to Johnvlissides: Good Books Should Be Much Thicker, So Will Your New Books Be, I Hope: -) (23:04)
NiX00000 said to Johnvlissides: Thank you Professor, I Think i Have Got Something! (23:05)
Johnvlissides says to D_JT: BTW, IF you'd like a preview of the example we'll be used, to a google search on junit, or go to junit.org (23:05)
D_JT said to Johnvlissides: I think Interface is better Used in group Communication (23:05) Johnvlissides said to Babysloth: The Pattern Hatching Must Be Dreadful!: -) (23:06)
Johnvlissides said to Babysloth: Seriously, Thickness Is No Indicator of Quality (23:06)
Johnvlissides says to D_JT: Actually, I don't find myself Discussing Design in Terms of Interfaces --- Except for their names, of course (23:07)
The FCX123 is said to Johnvlissides: OK. Time is up! let us! (23:07)
Babysloth said to Johnvlissides: i Hope It Can Be As Thick AS C Primer: -) (23:07)
D_JT said to Johnvlissides: Thank you very much (23:07)
PAOFAN said to Johnvlissides: Bible is Also Dreadful, But it is get. (23:07)
Johnvlissides said to everyone: okay, i'm being dragged out. my heartfelt Thanks to everyone! (23:07)
Umlchina said to Johnvlissides: Thank you, John (23:07)
Babysloth said to Johnvlissides: Thanks Again !!! (23:08)
Umlchina said to Johnvlissides: Good lunch (23:08)
PAOFAN said to Johnvlissides: Thank you for your book and your chat. (23:08)
FCX123 is said to Johnvlissides: Good Bye, Professor Johnvlissides! (23:08)
Windy.j said to Johnvlissides: :) n (23:08)
Johnvlissides said to everyone: Thanks Again for everything. Will you make a transcript available? (23:08)
NiX00000 said to Johnvlissides: Thank you again, Professor! (23:09)
D_JT said to Johnvlissides: Email? (23:09)
Umlchina said to Johnvlissides: Exit Button on Right-Bottom. (23:09)
Johnvlissides said to Umlchina: Thanks Again for everything. Will you make a transcript available? (23:09)
Niwalker said to Johnvlissides: BYE, JOHN, We all hope see u again (23:09)
Umlchina said to Johnvlissides: Yes, of Course with record (23:10)
Johnvlissides said to D_JT: vlis@us.ibm.com (23:10)
Johnvlissides left the chat room. (23:10)
