I remembered that the essence of this essence is mainly very good. I looked at those who flash the glorious words. I couldn't help but take some time to draw once. ! Of course, this is just a personal behavior, and I hope that everyone will not mind! After all, our common purpose is to improve, not other
If you pay, don't have any deletions in this article, thank you!
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Main topic: Systems Development Mode (SYSTEMER)
Author: FreeKany
The system template is a special system that has been mature, saying it is special, because such system templates do not have any specific data characteristics, do not have any personalized information, but has a fixed system structure and Interface layout. When we use these system templates as system implementation, we only need to give it specific attribute values, such as specific database information, specific display information, etc. More intuitive, in fact, a system template is similar to a class, one component, and control, but it is the system level, which has risen to the system height. So I gave it a name: system component. We will use the system to describe it!
With such a system-based system, after we finish the needs analysis, we can directly use these system parts to implement our system. No need to think about the implementation on any code. Perhaps, our programmer who only knows the shallow knowledge will be laid off, including me, although this is a bit sad, but the society is progressing, the programmer should change a living!
I know such an idea is more surprising. From a certain law, if you don't consider the underlying code implementation problem, the above analysis and design is not too reliable, so do a good system demand analysis and design. It seems that there is a long-term code experience! If there is no code experience, you can see a system that doesn't seem to say it!
So I am deeply afraid, such a system based on system-based development model? is it possible?
For a long time, I found that in fact, such a development model does not violate the above law, from the perspective of division of labor, this development model has completely encapsulated all the realization of all underlying code, and most of the design work Also packaged in the system. The demand analysis is actually a systematic process. This cannot be avoided at any time. When using system parts development mode development, the system becomes the system's process is the embodiment of demand analysis results!
Simply put, the system development mode is just a simple demand analysis - the process of implementation, and this implementation is a specific implementation, and now simplifies the simple System pieces are implemented! Previous system may need many people to work together, including a lot of encoders, now, it may not need these codents at all! This is simplified, time and material power is greatly simplified, and the system has the same powerful function, even more powerful!
This "even" is a little deep, because I found that many of the products that do now do business software actually do is similar, but because of interest relationships and narrow business thinking, each company's products are Confidential, so although it is the same product, each company is a group of people from the beginning, and because of the shortness of the time, the product made is the same function, but it is not mature, the three-state, Very little boutique.
This is the best embodiment of the reuse problem from the perspective of software engineering!
Speaking of this, I think you know the meaning of this "or even", it is great to develop, and the opportunity to use it is much bigger, so the experience is more, natural, and the system will be more powerful. More endurance!
The general law is not violated, because the system-based development model is also followed by the experience, it is just a large number of large amounts of zone, refining is a crystal clear diamond, and makes division of labor more exquisite ,reasonable.
It can now explain this: The previous experience has accumulated, and then the thinking mode of the system's demand analysis design is only a longitudinal thinking mode, the system development model is combined, and from the perspective of division of labor Redefile the software development process!
> Replices: freekany2002 () ()
█ >>> Software Development Process is a small handwritten process to a large group of low-handed processes
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Declaration: There may be a little excessive words, but there is no derivation, I hope everyone can understand it!
I know that such a topic is now, it is inevitable to be more agreement, but I still feel that this idea is really feasible!
Let the programmer laid off, maybe everyone will misunderstand my position, to do this system, there must be many high-level programmers, because the development of the system is indeed difficult! But now many of our primary programmers are still unknown on the underlying code, I think it is really no need, because they spend ten times the energy made, in fact, it may be double energy for high-level programmers. I have made it. Because of existing business factors, these high-level programmers are often only serving a company, from the return of the return, it seems that this is just a lot of rules, but this is every one. Have a sense of justice! But in fact, from another perspective, if these high-level programmers do things do not just serve a business, but released for thousands of businesses, that value is not an estimate! This is actually a restructuring of resources, and such a recombination, yes, it is made to make our software industry - this sentence is a bit big, but the truth! Advance inevitable will make some sections have changed significant changes - the most direct, of course, to make many encoders laid off! But why don't we think about another angle? If the change occurs on me, if I am a person who dares to accept all meaningful changes, then bravely accept it, then look for another breakthrough. The programmer is laid off, then your smart brain is used in analysis and design. Of course, if you still like to write code, then improve our system pieces, more prominent, you can think about it. Good software development method! In fact, I hope to do with the components of Microsoft and Borland, the control development is a truth, just I rose it to the system! From this perspective, I think everyone should know more!
There is a sentence saying this: The future software development is like this: the software development process is a small hand-written process to a large group of low-handed processes! I think this is good! Do you look at the master of Microsoft and Borland give us all these uses their development tools? Our so-called development masters, compared to them, how high you think yourself?
> Reply to: _i_ (do not understand) ()
TO 搂 Lord:
Look at the words you start, just like the system I want to do.
Two months I thought almost the same thing, the last sentence of a paragraph in my rough document: Oh, we don't need a blue collar!
I am doing Delphi SQL Server to do three-level development (ERP), in fact, there are few things that are little things, more important is corporate logic - but also have great similarity. The irregular development process makes the encoders write a lot of duplicate interfaces and produces many similar errors. If there is a code builder (it should be completely possible), it can avoid these losses, and even the codent can not be required, as long as the architecture personnel.
Simple logical code builder We have already made it here, but complex logic, or the client has special requirements, I think a long time, integrating into a unified mode is a bit difficult, and I have been very busy recently. I didn't continue to go deep into.
In fact, it is not necessary to generate an intermediate code, which can generate the final application.
If this program can come out, it will be the same style (reducing errors and repetitions), which also destroyed different programs at the same time), which is supported, which can reduce customer learning time.
It is a bit wrong, not much, if success is not necessarily a purpose, everyone can improve in the discussion.
> Replices: Cherami (Cherami) ()
In general, I still agree with the point of view of the landlord, but I said with other friends: too ideal! We all have a dream, and in fact, I also hope to have such a tool.
The problem is: To achieve such a tool, there is a lot of prerequisites.
1, a large number of universal code architecture and have different versions of the target language
2, a large number of high-level programmers, they have to have a deep understanding of the above code and have a lot of experience in various application systems.
3, adequate funds for a preliminary investment, there must be a system that can actually use, no tens of millions of RMBs are impossible
4. Perfect management, such a large project, no good management is impossible to succeed.
In fact, a system is currently unmolfing from the above conditions. For some older programmers, actually they are the artificial version of such a system, which is said because it is assumed to be designed and implemented, then their initial analytical behavior is the demand analysis of the landlord and detailed After the design process, after this process is completed, he will choose a lot of modifications as a template from the code he accumulated, because these code is not problematic, which is much more efficient from the head writing, he needs to be modified. The system related to the completed system is needed. So this programmer is actually a system of the system of the landlord, at least very similar. What needs to be pointed out is to make a system in a certain sense is to imitate the programmer's thinking and operation, and we know that existing systems can not achieve this level, if artificial intelligence technology is very perfect If the implementation of such a system is not very difficult.
Little, laughing.
> Reply to: Hax (Hai Wei) ()
My opinion is as follows:
The idea of the landlord has been similar. including me. Just my application goal is not all programs and software, which is basically impossible. I think you should accumulate experience in a particular application. What I have to do now is the overall development platform of Web Site.
In fact, from the past technological development, Web technology has always been more close to non-programmers than other programming technologies. HTML is a descriptive language that basic IQ is working properly. Java Script is a scripting language, its design goal is to use non-professional programmers. Of course, the current scripting language is quite complicated, but it is simpler than C, Java, and the main energy of the developer is in the implementation of the functionality instead of the efficiency of the program.
It is best to watch more complicated server-side, Java's example is best. From servlet to JSP to label libraries, getting more "simple". In fact, in contrast, JSP is not used by professional programmers. Professional programmers should do is the implementation of servlet, label library, and more.
Nowadays, China's small companies have made management software to manage software, yet, this is very similar to Website's development, so if there is from this piece, there is some soil, the upper level is high. For example, JSP finally has a standard label library (I recommend it in many articles), it can improve much efficiency. And as a label it is basically like HTML, non-professional can easily master.
Another example is Zope, after the concept of three-layer separation, we can divide the web site into appearance, logic, and data layers.
Among them, the appearance is the work of designers. Although the excessive expansion of HTML, Java Script and mixing with data layers and logic layers cause confusion, many development models have been separated by three layers, and with XHTML development, chaos Will be improved. The data layer is now generally used by XML.
The logic layer is usually done by programmers and is the core of the program. We want to simplify this part.
For example, use Zope, it has its own DTML to perform the performance layer, and there is a ready-made management framework to process the general data layer. The logical layer is written with a Python script. But it is generally rarely need to use the Python script, because in addition to the management function of Zope itself, there are many ready-made Products that can be installed, such as a general content management system.
Finally, I think the landlord needs to consider your system relatively close to the middleware or similar Zope.
Also, for me, I found that RDF is very good, because XML is good, but there is no semantic, this is also an obstacle to intelligent programs, and RDF is semantic. I think RDF will definitely be inspired by the landlord, I suggest you go see. Www.w3.org/rdf.
> Reply to: chao_jian (upgrade ...)
To freekany2002 (): Very appreciate your bold ideas, remember that there is a saying that a major quality quality of the programmer is good at lazy.
But this is a "dream" thought, I am sorry, I have to talk about my opinion:
Perhaps some programmers before more than ten years or earlier (I don't know how people call them) I heard that after the concept concept, I will immediately have your same ideas, because a simple component can be used for a few days. Or a few months can be realized (or you can call "software" at that time, but we are lucky today, and you may do it in minutes. Indeed, the programmer in that year is almost disappeared, but unfortunately, those who use components are called programmers, "System Pieces" (respect for your definition), then use "system parts" Do you have a programmer? Even if the design is the same person, but I think this situation is very small, just like today's system analysts use the simple components that don't touch it, let alone "system parts" may be more complex than the current components.
Speaking of this, I think the key is that when the programmer disappears due to the emergence of a technology, what should I start?
Finally, I think the author's technical direction should represent a new trend in the future, but it is not necessary to contact the programmer to laid off, and the programmer in a certain industry will indeed decrease, but it is not a common phenomenon.
We must recognize the difference between the software, since there is a difference, this idea (instead of programmer) is meaningless.
> Reply to: SoftWorm (old man) ()
Everyone is so visible, and there is no need to reflect it on him.
For what? For the landlord, let him avoid the pain of failure? Or for yourself,
Explain how deep it is for today's software technology?
If you, please don't say that others are bad, don't say that others' ideas are impossible.
When I first started to popularize the computer, everyone said Chinese is going to die, but Zhu
Mr. Bang Fu does not believe in evil, and struggled for half. Who is going to die now?
> Reply to: zmzy (zmzy) ()
1 Software software can be free software, such as Linux, because there are many other systems to refer to, while ideological or creative software can only engage in commercial development, otherwise they will fall into endless debates. 2 funds are the most important
3 I saw your design, I feel too blurred, there is still a long way to go.
> Replices: White (White)
Very meaningful ideas!
I have also had another idea to design a sixth generation programming language.
We know that most of our programming language is the fourth generation, and commercial application languages in SAP belong to the fifth generation.
After the programming language is, the farther away from the machine, the closer to the person. With the upgrade of the CPU (it will upgrade every 18 months, so don't worry), the efficiency is not a problem.
We use the fourth generation language, such as VC, VB, Delphi, etc., no longer need to pay attention to the details of machine code, register, but still need a lot of writing code, but it is much more than the assembly.
The fifth-generation programming language is more focused on commercial logic, only in a few system, such as R3 of SAP.
The sixth generation language I envisaged, basically does not need to write code with text, but use a graphical way to design the program process, just like the discussion flow chart in Vision. But this piece of the user interface still needs, but current VB, Delphi, etc. have been graphically designed, so they are not problematic.
In addition, an interpretation engine is needed to perform this program. In order to comply with the development of technology, it should be able to support distributed execution, that is, the previous "instruction" (aunt "is executed on this server, the next instruction may be on the earth. Executed on the other system.
The current workflow engine should be an original implementation of this language, which has a graphical process design tool and a graphical interface design tool and an execution engine. However, the workflow engine currently only supports a few of several sects of several nodes (ie the instructions we envisage).
The sixth generation language will greatly liberate the programmer, pay more attention to the business logic process itself, not technical details (just like the previous generation of languages).
Regarding the sixth generation language, there are currently a few companies in this area in this area, such as South Korea's company has a processq product, claiming to be the sixth generation language, but not very mature, and the application range is narrow.
> Replices: kenky (kenky)
When a person says "impossible", he is often wrong.
So, I don't dare to say, :)
The roof is right, this is a "dream." Everyone has the right to dream, but also dreams, very romantic. And most of the reality is from dreams, so dreams will always be possible, pay attention, only possible. If you want to achieve this dream, there are a few of us to explore.
The practical work is the most important. It is very confident that you have a confident ability to "grasp the ability to grasp the big frame" and big direction. Yes, this is important, especially in the technical high level. Also seen, you also admit that you "quietly do your mind to do something specific", tell your truth, this is terrible, you can say it is fatal. In fact, "Grasping the big frame, the big direction" and "calming the heart to do something specific thing", please remember this. If you want to achieve your dream, even if you are a big direction, there are a lot of specific work to do. Maybe not coding! In my opinion, you are now too blurred in your brain. It is not enough to put it into practice, but you start building a software model, although I didn't see, I will clearly result. There is no correct demand, more than just to develop, all projects are deadly taboo! Ok, we temporarily and assume your feasibility, the demand analysis has been completed, then you still have a lot of many specific work to do: Be a project plan that can trip to investors (don't tell me that you are such a huge project Don't invest ), In accordance with the plan, the technical personnel, "master" programmer, experienced project planning and management personnel, subdivision of the development task, allocate investment funds ... too much. Of course, you can say: I hire someone to complete these work. Yes, yes, it can be, but how many people hire, what kind of person doing what is doing ... Create a set of custom function teams. Long, huh, huh. It means these meaning, even if you grasp the big frame, you need a lot of specific, meticulous work, but not just in the brain.
There is also the technical preparation. According to your statement, most of the programmers using existing programming tools are "low hands", I temporarily agree. Then you need to get rid of the traditional system, such as Borland, mircrosoft, is not subject to people. Very good, very good, this is a dream of many people. What does this need? To completely abandon this Delphi, VC, VB and something like it now, but you still have an open UNIX, you have to do it if you don't operate ... No, is it CPU? Also redesigned, lest Intel and other manufacturers change the instructions ...
Ok, there is no one, summary the expression: Dream is very good, just to achieve a lot she wants, and you need "calm down to do something specific", if you really Want to implement it.
> Reply to: NETPIT (Net Well)
This kind of thought lazy programmer and truly experts will think.
This kind of thinking has a study abroad for a long time, and there are many research in China.
To put it bluntly, based on this idea-based application-based application software development platform.
A few years of assembly development technologies are immature, and the Internet has no extensive application, so the above things have been developed, but the practical value is not large.
Now is this kind of thinking, it is not difficult to build a set of systems based on J2EE / .NET.
I met several college graduates in two or three years like your young man, the theory set, but actually doing things is actually painful - not just pain myself. I think this age may also be the biggest dream, but it is often very low, so I want to think from a big place, it is important to start from a little bit.
Doing such a system, requires strong ability to grasp the system architecture, and have sufficient experience in the business system of the real world, so there will be corresponding stipulations. How to establish a system-integrated framework, such as how to build system integration, which requires a deep understanding and grasp of general design patterns and ideas. But you are a capital, I hope to be implemented.
> Reply to: dulo123 (no night)
------------------
My understanding is
1) Your system is used to generate code.
2) Your system may be engaged with the Visio et al. (Or explain the Visio and other files), automatically generate the code.
3) Your system is to improve the efficiency of development.
4) Your system is to meet the needs of general projects.
5) The interface, process of this system, more generalized than Delphi, the adjusted properties are less, but this is acceptable in a standard project. Just as Delphi's buttons can be accepted (excluding third-party controls)
6) The operation of the system is to describe the system when designing, when designing, when it is completed, it is only necessary to set the property, and the connection, etc. is completed.
And my problem is:
1) This system automatically generates code, then the efficiency of code may be slower? How to embed an automatic code make efficiency faster?
2) This system still has a bottom-up connection? For example, call DLL, etc., is still embedded in your code?
3) A simple programming problem,
A.b.c.d.d. . . 10 people surrounded by a circle, starting from a clockwise number, and is out of the team from the team, who is left?
How does this system describe the problem? (Accurately describe how to solve the problem), how to describe how to generate code?
Does this issue automatically generate a code? Or manually write code for embedding?
If you want to write Delphi and other pseudo code, or write this code, is it faster than your photo code?
4) If the system has code conflicts, how to debug?
5) I feel too abstract. At the beginning, it was quoted to C. I believe many people don't believe it. I am not willing to accept. The reason is (can not do the underlying work, low efficiency); from vc to Delphi, not willing, the reason is above Three, there is also (unstable, not flexible). . Always, the system is a very abstract thing, it may succeed, but it may fail, but not like the changes above.
I hope that you give an example
Description - "Code,
In fact, I have a demand analysis, and the detailed design is not! !
> Reply: hit5075 () ()
Don't always use old brains to think about new problems,
In fact, this idea may be realized,
And the programmer will not lose business,
Turn around to do "system pieces"
Also add a sentence: If there is no dream, what is the salty fish?
> Reply to: Tony1978 (Association Summoner) All people upstairs, did not have seen software engineering, slightly browse. The Lord believes that "Design Patterns" is, do not know how to understand.
This is completely feasible for a narrow application, many systems confirmed. Although there are many restrictions, it can produce available programs. It is too difficult to apply to all places, which will put a sentence in the design mode book. What you have to do is a framework that can be analyzed, assembled and assumes that you can adapt to any needs and environment. Even if you can implement it within a few years, I am probably only for specific partial applications. Even so, the amount of engineering is also imagined. Try, how do you know the system used to build a system, which unique algorithms, logic, and interfaces, how do you guarantee to realize him?
> Reply: bonmot (Jerry)
Still returning to the software:
The purpose of the software is automated, and automation is based on a multiplexing implementation.
The degree of multiplexing and generalization is inversely proportional,
Compilation is most common, but the least use
The process-based language is most reused, but it can only be a certain field, not universal.
The world is complicated, but the basic unit constituting the world is simple. Just like the principle of geometry is simple, the specific prove is complex. We can build any quantity theorem on a certain type of problem on the basis, but we cannot achieve limited theorem for any problem (if you can't achieve it from principle or assumptions).
Again, in the Software World is also true.
If the owner wants to be universal, it can be reused, it is unrealistic.
But if you have a certain area, you can build your own multiplexing components.
> Replices: Pacman2000 (Pacman)
The idea is very good, I want to talk about this example, I don't know if my understanding is right.
Through systematic development, it is actually based on component development methods, but only the definition of components is different. But if you want to do, the purpose is to do not need to develop detail code (the landlord is not this?), Is a general programming method (GP). Think about the STL is an example of this, expressed many algorithms and data structures, and when you use it, you don't need to write it yourself. Of course, it is not easy, even needs C language itself modification. However, at least this is feasible, and it is also actually a simplified development. Can you say this, the system is a STL in an application. Ha ha.
It is to be explained that a good designer does not understand the tool used by the tool. And if flexible, the necessary details are inevitable! These details are all basis.
> Replices: freekany2002 () ()
First of all, thank you for your enthusiasm:
I didn't expect this topic to attract so many arguments. In fact, everyone thinks is much better than what I think. Many questions, I can't answer one by one, here two questions are communicated with you.
One of the problems is: the development of the system is growing, how do I want to achieve the implementation of -fdd:
In fact, as my original idea, I hope to attract a lot of mature systems that have existed now, encourage them to convert their systems into system parts, so that the system can be reused and continuously optimized, improved! This is the system I proposed - rotate system solution, this way can make FFDD quickly grow up! But this involves the business interest problem, very headache! So I thought of whether it would effectively imitate Linux development model, but this way is estimated that the development is slow! Another problem is what I want to talk about innovation
Many people go back to pushing if there is such a system, the programmer is not hungry (of course, is this exaggerated language, ^ _ ^)? In fact, this fear is not necessary, I want to tell you a point where it is: only innovation can do the leader of the times! If you have to do the leader of the times, you have to do something to have a creative thing, this I hope everyone thinks why mircosoft and intel are always holding our nose. Because they will always have something that we don't expect (or don't do), they always run in front of us! Employed a decade, you can start thinking about how to design mature Windows (and not a difficult thing), but I want to tell you that Microsoft is already a mobile operating system and 3D operating system. ! So, please don't think about doing MS style Windows. If you want to be more than Microsoft, you can now consider making a 3D operating system (virtual reality operating system), then you have sufficient strength!
> Reply to: Shornmao (dead cat)
I have run the Demo version of the landlord.
The software itself is not very stable, but this has no relationship.
But my intuition is that the software is Wizard-based, the system is actually Wizard, which is technically feasible. Since FoxPro and Access have implemented similar basic functions, this is basically consistent with the fundamental system features of the software.
But the idea of the landlord is fully established on the similarities of most MIS products, and this similarity itself is a deficiency, abstract a defective design, and trying to use him as a standard template so that it is produced The product that is out must be defective.
According to the correct thinking mode, different enterprises have their own business models and business applications, according to different application needs, different business logic must be designed, and it is necessary to make it difficult to reuse the business logic abstraction as a reused module. I don't think it is very serious developmental attitude. This may be the idea of some short-sighted businessmen, I will never agree.
> Replices: IWTFLY (hands cool)
Ideally, in fact, all small MIS systems can develop PB, Delphi, and VC team cannot develop, maybe abstract more than us, but why don't they do a fixed framework on them? Everyone thinks that Bill Gates and the similar commercial heads don't think about this? I don't want to be too naive, so I would rather believe that he is thinking! At least the template of the VFP is accessing the database, automatically generates The program frame is not seen, it seems to be very simple, why? I think this is a very scientific choice! In this way, while ensuring the rapid construction of the program, it also left the space that is inspired. In fact, everyone has their own inspiration.
Summarizing is: Objective saying that we are secondary developers, people who build a stage have a compromise relationship with us, they do much, we do less, they do less, we do much, Division of labor is different. > Reply to: snhnbn (big canane)
I have seen a lot of posts, most of them are flat landlords.
However, I am very supported by this idea of the landlord. Since the first project I design, I also have the same idea when I summarize.
Not impossible, but very likely to achieve, is not a deep thing such as artificial intelligence ... In addition to the interface is good, the location is reasonable. At least, it can be derived from the design to derive code when data processing is stored, and the premise is designed to be designed to be designed in a specified and strict format design. Of course, it can only be limited to a certain field. This design is meaningless if you want to make design expressions in many areas, because such a design is encoded. OO design ideas are easier to derive the design, Rose and Playcase have functions from design and export code. I hope that those who have critored them will take a look at Rose and Playcase to see UML. Before I contact these things, I have found that object-oriented design can be directly guided into Class, but unfortunately the user interface is still a problem. However, if the system architecture is established in three layers, the automatic derivation of the intermediate layer and the storage layer is a great progress.
> Replices: ar7_top (black and white, male girl)
Very likely to be realized
Because a good software designer should be able to design software
In detail, each process is even implemented.
And written according to many articles
The same problem
All the code written by all Indian programmers is the same, which means a problem
These codes are automatically generated by certain logic
In fact, similar things Dreamweaver have made an example
ASPs using Dreamweaver Ultradev, basically don't write code yourself
All code can be generated automatically
This example is booming, it has become the same mode of the software.
I don't know how everyone's opinion.
> Reply to: nhgw (innovation!)
I have done a system, including many components, only need to organize each component like a flow chart for different application systems, and it is not necessary to program. However, there are some problems:
1. The generated system function is very similar. Because it is composed of the same components.
2, the limitations are very limited, only useful for specific business. Suitable for those features, but very similar systems.
3. The actual is also a development tool, but it is simple and functional.
This is actually a problem with code reuse. I personally think that the current more practical ideas has the following functions:
1. Accumulate the rich code to achieve various functions. A well-managed company can do it.
2. The accumulated segment code can be long (complete a specific function), or it can be short (a function), or you can repeat (you can make a part of a long code in another code) or an interface.
3. Develop a set of systems to manage the accumulated code.
4. Manually define some system generated logic, such as for some function, can be composed of several code, input and output interfaces, etc.
5, when you need to generate a new system, the code generation system only needs to find the system generated logic and generate the code according to the functionality of the new system. But the generated system is only a semi-finished product, but it still saves a lot of development time.
My idea is similar to Microsoft's idea of developing MFCs, but more specific, only for certain systems, this will be simpler for these systems. Unlike what MFC can do anything. > Reply to: Coldwolf (Days of Meteor)
The boss, the occasional head is dizzy.
Who said this cannot be realized
Just a matter of time.
Don't stay in the code layer to discuss the problem is good. Automatic code generation is not not. The current visual development tool is a micro-shadow. In the DOS era, when one day saw that people creating a simple form, surprised, I can't say, I have a dark thinking, hurry to use TC, otherwise I It is necessary to be eliminated. . . After several years, these tools are not VC, Delphi. . . It may be the SYSTEM BUILDER that the landlord is said.
For the opposition of the program, it may be just a kind of fear: if this is coming out, we still eat these CODERs. Note that I am using us because I am also a CODER. It's like the development of DOS to Windows, which is full of fear of new things. Now, as long as some logical thinking, a little language foundation, use VB, CBC ... may use the wizard to make an east to the previous DOS programmer to be implemented one year (don't emphasize what efficiency and resource utilization When you develop ordinary commercial software, you will not consider 64K memory limitations), because they have to do, just put all controls to the right position, which looks comfortable. Simultaneously write a few simple data processing in a click event. A media player is made ... maybe it seems to look at you, it can make a hundred, if you change it, you can make this breaking thing to use so convenient. However, I want to emphasize that it is made after all. For us for the DOS era, this is a great thing! ! ! !
To do test, I think what I want, everyone should understand.
However, I still think that the codeer cannot be replaced by any program. Because any software is manufactured out, then replacing some repetitive things, people are liberated to do other things. Like the DOS era, the masters will write a complete program. Because no one can replace them. Now masters will do components, or others. Other people use this to write ready-made components, and they can complete a very practical program through some simple implementations. These people may not know how to implement it, just know that their purpose is achieved.
In the future, some people will implement MIS Builder, ** Builder. Of the although the landlord will use this Dongdong to change Money, then do these Dongdong sold to the landlord for Money huh! ! :)
Maybe I am a little extreme, please forgive me. I am this character, no way: (, although I know this is not good. But it is difficult to disguise.
> Reply: jiawh (东)
I have a few hobbies:
Programming, science fiction, miniature novel
Fantasy with scientific basis is good, and as long as it is in the scope of science, it is possible to implement in the future.
Over a year, people were in the moon in the moon, and people were realized.
There is a fantasy that there will be development and have progress.
Bold fantasy. Let people come to fantasy.
My opinion, this idea can be achieved within a certain range,
But it shouldn't be a product or a tool
And it should be the working model of people and
A variety of tools used in this working mode
> Replices: Justing (Shanfeng)
I don't dare to finish reading, most of them still look. Spelling the truth, the head is big!
I think many brothers upstairs may misunderstand the meaning of FreeKany2002 (), whether it makes programmers laid off, it is the current metaphorical speech, is entangled in code, the specific implementation of the code is also worrying enough. When C uses template to implement code multiplexing, everyone will feel unacceptable; VC is not a virtual function mechanism to realize message mapping, and the "everything is object" trend, but has won efficiency and space. I can definitely say: FreeKany2002 () brothers pursue, is the direction of software development in the future! Therefore, for this dream, and all discussions based on this (possibly more important), my personal evaluation is: Great!
The foreground is tempting, and it is of course very difficult to achieve it. Before the implementation of the specific discussion, a crucial problem is: How to define this tool and programmer (that is, user) interface, how much particle size is implemented? Actually, if such something has come out (of course, it is a hypothesis), I am a programmer, what should I do to convert my demand into tools to understand the format, and automatically generate the code I need? Just say what analyzes design space! First, there is such a standard (this is a standard that must be established, just like the current Windows program development standard, the minimum is based on API), and we may be considered in consideration.
Finally, pay tribute to all friends who are committed to this problem! This is a magnificent thinking, I hope to grow into a tall poplar! I will continue to pay attention to these issues.
> Reply: zhengxionghua ()
I think everything is not unable to realize
During the realization
Maybe where the Delphi is not bad.
However, the control has changed, and the control method changes.
But the efficiency is improved!
Work hard, I hope to use this development platform in the future!
> Reply to: fling_boy (boy)
I have heard that software development is like a wooden, which is larger than a small combination.
The trend from the past to the current development is: our final building block is getting bigger and bigger, offering
The ready-made building blocks we can use are getting bigger and bigger, see the developer under DOS.
When we use the development tools provided by the function library, but the developer
The procedure is also relatively small, and now the program is getting bigger and bigger.
There is also the previous development tool. I want to spend the time will definitely be very long, and there is no need.
Done, so the tools now have more and more powerful, packaged
The class library, components are saved.
But I feel in the process of compilation, the greater the building blocks, but it is fast but less flexible.
Sex, the smaller the building blocks, although flexible but consumes a lot of time and energy; I have to
Find the best combination between the two, sometimes call a huge in order to catch the time
The component implements a small function, sometimes written a small time for the time of seeking excellence.
Algorithm.
I have thought that software development is demand analysis, system design, code preparation,
The combination of several phases of the program test is actually a small to small and subsequent.
Method of building blocks; sometimes he does not need one of the individual steps from some people's perspective
For a special example, customers can use the module of the entire program, analyst
The system's various functional modules, but if you want to design some components through simple
Match to complete a large functional module, I think not only now, it is not real.
Because the demand is always changing, and the demand is more diverse, such as
The development tools continue to update, the class library is constantly strengthened and perfect, the development mode is constantly changing, these are to adapt to the development of new programs, and these are needed.
To develop, the same application is also the same or more complicated, so
I think the link between software development is still, the better.
> Replices: lingate (lingate)
I don't think I realized that the components developed by each person for their project are not easy to use, if the control is large, the modification is inconvenient, and it is not easy to meet the needs of most people, if you write Small features specific and micro controls, then you will write code to organize yourself in the future. The system components and controls you envisage are very similar, I think there will be these problems.
Reply to: cnjava ()
The more integrated things, the more stupid it, because they are not flexible enough.
For example, some people use compilation, write viruses with C, but never use PB to write viruses, although
It is very fast with the PB development system.
2. You are more required, you will lose more things on flexibility and inspiration.
For example, every system is made in the same template, just like you put every building.
The building is made into one. Do you say that there will be so many inspirational buildings in the world?
Between flexibility, inspiration and creativity, you can only choose one.
3. I think the machine is the machine, people and machines have the essence of different, the essence of machine wisdom
It is calculated, and the essence of human wisdom is inspiration and passion. If one day "machine" is also available
These, then we should call them for wisdom!
> Reply to: Eyunfei (Yunfei)
To freekany2002
Your thoughts are really bold, don't need programmers? Maybe when you really implement it, it should be the east of the east. If you really want to implement it, you should do something practical, that is not People say that you are a trust. If you can design this "system" (just by you) now, the source code you have now published and constantly updated, that will be more convincing. I want to To join you this project, you must also make people see your strength, when you have super strength and can be achieved, then you have added it. So, in this big speech, waste time, It is better to calm down, write up to 10,000 lines of code, let it make, let the interesters join the overall changes, improve, and will take the reaction, and then the team's formation work. In short, the actual action is more speech It is more convincing. (Even in this process is not necessarily successful, this process will inevitably let you learn more things, that is the most important thing.)
I don't afraid of everyone's jokes, I am not a programmer, but I have a more innocent idea in the previous month, that is, "anti-Microsoft". Oh, the chart has achieved this by organizing a programmer organization. Chinese programmer alliance. All programs implement subregional system. (A bit like the previous red couple) In less than two weeks, members have increased to six or seven, including many high-level characters, have a top domain name, And the 80G space. But after the establishment, I found many deficiencies. In fact, there are many unexpected problems that start such a simple organizational form. Drive now .... Hey, don't say it, it is really Now I have a limited level. But I will learn a lot of things, this may be something I am dedicated. I hope that you can succeed, in fact, this process is endurance, as long as you have this determination, keep this mentality Maybe with the development of technology, your dreams can be implemented, then you may get a step by step by them. In addition, if you really want to get a dedicated page, you can face you these projects. Discussion, I think our current alliance may also provide a space for you, (but this needs to be agreed by a member of the alliance.) Of course, if you have a prominent performance, someone will join you this plan. Not. In fact, it is the purpose of establishing this organization, that is, the development of software.
Ok, I don't say more. If you are interested, you will send it to me!
> Reply to: jason_guo (dreams of dreams, work hard!)
*********************************************************** *************
*********************************************************** ************* spent a lot of time to read all posts. ICCCHG I think the important thing:
1. This system is theoretically feasible.
2. If this system is feasible. So, such a huge programming work. Who is it? I believe, now
In the world, no business can do this project!
3. If some companies can do this project, is its flexibility? Is the flexibility? If you want to achieve this?
Big project, then, use your project. I believe that the project you want, there are many places to explain.
(Order, structure, arrangement), if so, isn't that these programmers change the name, you can follow
Continued development procedures (because your system is huge, it is highly technically high. Not a general computer
Users can operate)
4. If you do this system .. Can you be a future demand?
5. If you have done it. The world is not good, but bad ...
Why do you say this? You do this, undoubtedly kill innovation, not in innovation ...
Because innovation is coming, if you do it, will you compete?
When the program is not innovated ...
-------------------------------------------------- ----------------
That's it, I believe that your dreams have not been completed! (Of course, there is "possible".). Comprehensive, I am not against your idea. But say, you have been separated from the actual .. in technology .. in
Lost direction ...
> Replices: wxt (d.k)
For code automatic generators (I think the system is this kind of thing), it is not yet. Since it is impossible to produce a car for 1 minute, it is now reality. So I also believe that the machine coding is also a matter or later. Just at that time, the meaning of "programmers" was sure and now, just like the things that the car doing the car is the same as 50 years ago.
However, the same truth, 50 years ago, doing a car, now there is still a car, in addition to Ford, there are still few people in the world? Put the people designed to be used now to 50 years ago, there will be no factories to receive I think it will be a problem. So, the Lord, I am sad for you in this era!
If you don't want to be like Marx, don't study communism! Although communism may be the greatest dream.
That is, I want to say that people who are dissatisfied with the current development environment like the landlord.
> Reply: longbow74 ()
There are too many comments, it's all in one, just say two sentences.
First, you should allow you to have this dream, although it is basically unrealistic, but dream is dream, you can don't act.
Second, I have seen more than you have an idea, but what is it, because it is not easy to develop, so I hope that I don't exist, or degrade the development, you can think about whether it is, not saying that you are not , People are tempered, but more objective thinking about things.
Third, grasp the big direction is actually very easy. The people I have ever seen can say that it is like a maze, the big direction is this mouth, that mouth (of course, the big direction is not so Simple), the real process is to go, *** Now the unified software development process is an iterative and incremental ***, part of the design comes from the previous iterative development, such a design is feasible, truly do A good system design, I hope you can step down, doing software is a bitterness, you can pursue lazy but at least not currently can't be lazy.
Fourth, in fact, I really want to say that the relationship between design and development is now the design and development of these two professions. It is difficult to cooperate, it is difficult to cooperate, and it is degraded. In fact, what is the machine code, relative to machine code And compiling, I feel that the language can be designed, and it is necessary to clearly design and develop. In the stage of demand, you must clearly achieve constraints. When you have an iterative plan, you have to know which technical risks, Design in the iterative process will change as development, etc. I hope that people who want to do development can understand design, and have a conscious study (not necessarily to be designed). After all, a good design is the high-level stage of development, and designed people Be familiar with the development, unclear what is going to design, talk on the paper. *** Good software engineer must overcome lazy and impetuousness, there is idea, but also to be in the earth, otherwise it is just ideas ***
Fifth, write so much, tired, Heph, be lazy. Not to respond to your post, just do so many years, some opinions, hope to help people develop in this industry, China's software It can be better in the industry. (I think it is really full of bad)> Original (NEWDONGKUI paste) at 2002/06/25 12:45)
Reply: I have a dream ------ programmer off ------ Happy DIY Developer Dream
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I am doing more or less surrounding my friends, and everyone lacks a unified understanding, and often fall into some specific code packages or some industry applications. In fact, there is a common feeling: this is a Long process, there are still many knowledge that is not ready, lack of organizers with commercial minds and project leaders with absolute experience absolute control capabilities.
It is recommended that you engage in English in a website, develop ideas and resources, establish a group, divide the topic, discuss together for two or three, we will get the gaze, establish standards, establish a standard, choose Java or other one Language, launch Demo, get the attention of most people, then integrate, set real enough power to complete and implement it.
In addition, I feel that the boundaries between language are getting more and more blurred. Web and local are more similar. We may consider the three-layer structure, simplify the interface and representation logic, and let programmers laid off from another angle.
> Original (Newdongkui paste) at 2002/06/26 09:24)
Reply: Thank you very much, I hope everyone now puts the focus of the discussion to achieve it!
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More operational, it is the practice of free group combination and normative source code, which is free software. It is completely open and transparent, and then the volunteer elite, each grasping the direction, cross, experiment, practice, should be clarified. Our ideas, unify our thoughts, our current problem is that ideas are not unified, everyone's Garden is different; for example, our university (6 or 7 years ago), I have sent a nerve: destroy the language (VB , VF, PB, Delphi ...), let project developers, take wood, take various modules to do projects, and develop into decoration. Now think of it, it is stupid.
There is another difficult to grasp, the user's personalization requirement and industry special application.
Suppose such a development system:
User Demand - "Analysis of Demand -" FFDD Modeling Analysis (Abstract, Modeling, Solder ...) - "FFDD Model Extract (Function Model Board, Process Model Board, Business Model Board, Architecture Model Board, test model board ... - "FFDD instantiation (architecture, digital modules, applications, and functionatics ...) -" Code implementation
I think you can understand what I mean.
LW549 (2004-01-17) When a person says that XX is impossible, it is often wrong to prove that it is wrong.
I have a strong opposition to Gigix's comments. In the development of MIS, I have also had the same idea as the landlord, and I have worked hard. First talk about technical feasibility system, it can be sure, it is completely feasible, what we need to do is more thoroughly abstract, and independently perform an abstraction of each industry.
Secondly, economic feasibility development is a common system, and the cost of developing a "system piece", the cost of the two should be a disparity. For China's current IT industry, it is economically incapable, after all, big company Some. However, once the development of "system parts" is completed in a certain industry. The economic benefits brought by enterprises are huge - other companies have been developed by N-month, and you may have completed it when you finish your needs.
Finally: Support the landlord! I hope the landlord is an example for the development of China's software. At the same time, I hope that you should not easily deny the idea that you have not considered, there is nothing benefit to your own improvement.
PEON (2003-08-12) When the printer started to invent, everyone feels not thinking, think this is ridiculous, but now is the level of the little sister in the shop in the shop? ----- ------------------------------------- indeed, the printer did, what is the previous printing , Very trouble, now some work is handed over to the word processing and platelet software, the printer is the small one ring above but the printer can only complete very narrow work, the software is not a printer
Software is an abstraction of true world, and the real world is extremely complicated.
The large-scale multiplexing is only possible: 1. Designers are rich in experience, whether software or related fields 2. For specific areas, and have mature patterns in this field
Moreover, after blocking the complexity of a certain area, there will be new complexity, people's needs are constantly moving forward to try the current multi-user database access! It's so convenient to make a user interface now! I used to know how terrible in DOS, but it is still very complicated now. -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------- system template, is a special system that has been mature, say It is especially because such system templates do not have any specific data characteristics, no personalized information, but has a fixed system structure and interface layout. When we use these system templates as system implementation, we only need to give it specific attribute values, such as specific database information, specific display information, etc. More intuitive, in fact, a system template is similar to a class, one component, and control, but it is the system level, which has risen to the system height. So I gave it a name: system component. We will use the system to describe it!
With such a system-based system, after we finish the needs analysis, we can directly use these system parts to implement our system. No need to think about the implementation on any code. Perhaps, our programmer who only knows the shallow knowledge will be laid off, including me, although this is a bit sad, but the society is progressing, the programmer should change a living! -------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------- people who have made a real system know: 1. The general system starting point is very high, the underlying code is not much, how the interface database is implemented, and the print is not very worrying 2. Different areas, for the performance, ease of use, safety of the system, there are differences in the field, the difference is too large, and the problem is definitely not a few SQL statements. 2. There are a lot of specific details, and the programmer must fill in a lot of code on the implementation of the function, not to set a few properties 3. And when the same system version is upgraded, it is definitely not to change several attributes. To do a lot of meticulous adjustments 4. Use different technical solutions and platforms, or from different starting points (what is safe to safely), the system layout has a very different, and with the advancement of technology, there is a possibility of overwriting the entire system, the same family Company, do you think you can use the system that you can use, looks like a toy? In short, I mean: You want to do universal silver bombs in various fields, at least in the current hardware and software platform - impossible freekany2002 (2003-08-12) ============== ======================= xtelle (2003-8-11 23:10:58)
You have to speak, I am still not good enough for your pound. It seems that regardless of logical thinking
There are many problems with the understanding of software research and development. Ignorant is fearless. Or that sentence, you have to go
The road is really long. ====================== How many pounds have I have, huh, huh, you don't have to come, it is right and wrong; I just mention
Out of an idea, the idea is for discussion, not selling, so I don't need to be afraid of others; "Now, regardless of logical thinking, there is also the understanding of software research and development,
Multiple questions. "- That means you have less problems even if you don't have no problem? --- So
, I feel that you should be a relatively rough "system" - because your thoughts
I have few problems, which is already in line with the "system pieces": "Excelle, is a class that has been made
Mature special people say it is special, because this kind of Excelle does not have any specific
The data characteristics do not have any personalized information, but has fixed thinking. When we use these Excelle to be cloned, we only need to give it specific properties, such as specific names, specific little names, etc. . . . "-" Do you care about it, is it almost a matter? --- Cloning is verified, so I can consider the system piece, how do you think? "Ignorant" --- I don't know you Is it a kill, or an ignorant? If you are a kitr, is you doing things now? If you are an ignorant, that ... "or the saying, the road you want to go is really long. "- How many years have you gone, do something for society, talk to listen? FreeKany2002 (2003-08-12) =================== ================================= ========================================1 15:28:13 Live, put our one a one of the people and batch a meal
Actually, I still say that my brain has a problem, who is doing personal attacks? Not an authority, not a old bird, but still look enough, this kind of person ======================, if your original intention is not a personal attack, Then I apologize to you, but I hope to see the article, I want to know, ok? Freekany2002 (2003-08-12) Let you calm down, then come slowly, when a debate is good, continue. .
============================================================================================================================================================================================================= ====== YK_001 (2003-8-11 17:33:29)
"With such a system-based system, we will be able to finish the needs analysis.
Use these system parts to achieve our system. Don't want to think about any code
Now. Perhaps, our programmer who only knows the shallow knowledge should be laid off, including me, although this
A bit painful, but the society is progressing, the programmer should also change a living method! "
4 years ago, a professor who made MIS said that there were similar words, and it was only for 1 year, frightened. Ha ha
About this first thing this feels that "the programmer of thick knowledge" is going to be laid off. "
Wrong, if your system is too automatic, there is only a small number of roadside print shops.
The level of sister can be completed. About the system parts, automatically make CS, Empire, Diablo II ,. . . . Waiting for me to play games? Brothers have made a few years of MIS systems? Who hosted you? Your company? Not special
Sex, market chaos, can you live today? Do you want to unify this market? Request users
Can you use the software you automatically generate? ============================== "If your system is too automatic, it is actually only needed to shop in the store.
The level of little sister can be completed "- When the printer started invented, everyone feels
Don't think about (don't tell me you have already foreseen now "the level of little sister of the store"
"The level of little sister can operate the printer, ^ _ ^), I feel that this is ridiculous, but now is
Not the horizontal level of the little sister in the shop, (this sentence is a little awkward, but I
I have to express this) "Do you want to unify this market? Require user only software to generate software?
"--- I dare to guarantee, do you want to use Sun's Java class development tool, is you going to open Microsoft?
Do you want to use Borland's development tools, is you only here?
Select in several tools (of course, you may say that I still use Debug, I also use GCC, I still
Use ..., but on your speech, "supporting you" things should not be these work.
Tome)? Are you using a Windows operating system, or a UNIX operating system, or Linux operation
Is the system or a MacOS operating system? How many choices do you have, you didn't think it was already
Is it?
