This is a log of the chat rooms during the live audio chat from November 19, 2004 on Delphi 2005 with Danny Thorpe, a Borland Chief Scientist, and architect of the Delphi compilers. Danny discusses changes and enhancements to the Delphi Win32 and Microsoft.NET Compilers, The Run Time Framework, And .NET Support in General.
Note:. This log is only the chat room transcript There is much additional information covered in the audio replay that is not available in this chat log For all previous and upcoming live chats, see http://bdntv.borland.com/chat. .html.
VIP Lounge Transcript
dthorpe: who was supposed to bring the propeller aohlsson:? Hehe dthorpe:! mm refactoring goodaohlsson: Yes, is it good aohlsson:?. Careful You Yun l break this chat client ... aohlsson::) dthorpe: mrbtrieve gets first post ! aohlsson: We know:!) aohlsson:! Hi Cobolman aohlsson:! Sprite dthorpe:! and davidf jkaster:! reminder: use / ask to submit questionsjkaster: thanks for the heads up on the picture behavior will fix that for next chat. (Checked, And It's A Browser Settings Issue, Not a chat room issue) JKASTER: FUTURIX: "DANNY, For ... IN WORKS for all types? arrays? Collectes? (in Win32 I mean" - Win32 Follows Same Rules for . GetEnumerator VCL has been updated to support this, for example Arrays, multi-dimensional arrays, strings, sets, classes that implement the pattern.jkaster:. cobolman: "can you change an object surfaced in a for ... in loop? "- no. The element returned by a collection enumerator Needs to be read Only for optimization reasons. The State of the Collection Should Not Change d as a result of enumerating it. furthermore, enumerators do not guarantee order. You can modify an object returned by an enumerator, but not modify it in a way that will change its iteration order, but the exception might not always be raised for that . condition CLS specifies this as a failure condition.jkaster: serge_d: "Can you expand TCollection to an IInterface (ICollection) to make it similar to .Net" - yes, it could be done, but my concern is about overhead to TList and Collections, Which Are Currently Very Lightweight. Will Continue Investigating this.jkaster: DRBOB42: "What About Token Collision (The Same Type In Multiple - But Same Namespace)?"
- That Is a new Risk in Delphi 2005 Because You Have Multiple Units with Separate Name Scopes. Generally, That? A Bad Idea To Do, But It 抯 OK. WHEN You Compile Those Two Units Into a .NET Assembly, The Units W / the same type and same name are forbidden by .NET The compiler doesn Yang currently catch duplicate names across different units in .NET Best way to find those is using PEVerify currently.jkaster:.. JonR: "are there compiler hints when the compiler" chooses "not to inline?" - Te compiler will hint when you ask for something to be inlined but it won Yang by the compilerjkaster: leopasta: "Can we set an option so that the compiler will evaluate every function of a project, trying to INLINE IT? "- YES, There 抯 A Complier Directive Called $ INLINE WITO 3 States: ON, OFF, Autojkaster: Tjipke:" How TO GET RID OF THESE INLINTS? "- Turn Inline Off OR Turn Hints Offjkaster: DRBOB42:" Is there w t s? "- There 抯 No Simple Indicator. Hoping for Color Difference for Dot Indicator For Debugger in The Futurejkaster: Jonr: "But what about win32 API Wrappers in Windows.Pas? WOULDN 抰 This be a hugefit?" - Yes, IT IS and We since! JKASTER: Jonr: "My Bad, There Are many API wrappers that aren Yang inlined in Windows.pas I guess someone has already figured out reasons for these not to be inlined "- thanks for the followupaohlsson:.. We turned off all cell phones Forget about the landline ... LOL.! jkaster: edan, use / ask to submit questions for danny to answerjkaster: MrBtrieve: "for all of us non-.NET heads, what is Borland Zha long-term plan and / or commitment to keeping (and hopfully enhancing) the Win32 version Of Delphi Post Delphi2005? "
- the plan is to continue to develop Win32 for the compiler and IDE, primarily a lot of productivity work for the IDEjkaster: drbob42: "will the Kylix compiler be upgraded to the same Win32 / .NET language features?" We Zhen e working? . on the Kylix compiler plan There is strong interest in updating Kylix, but nothing I can say for sure about Kylix compiler plans Main focus is bringing platform support up to latest Linux OS levels.jkaster:. futurix: "Inevitable question ;-) any chance of native Delphi for Win64 "- Which 64bit platform We Zhen e certainly still considering this and analyzing costs involved.jkaster: cobolman:?"?? Is there significant overhead to using interfaces in Win32 "- the overhead is exactly the same as what it Zha been all along, including support for addref and thread safetyjkaster: cobolman: "? any chance of getting an expanded case statement to allow things like string items" - In .NET that Zha a possibility using its string tokenizer We would make the. Strings Case Sensitivej KASTER: MNK: "What Priority Have Generics?" - # 1 for .NET 2.0Jkaster: MRBTRIEVE: "What is The Status of Delphi for .NET Apps and Compatibility WITH PRODUCTS Such as mono?"> - We don 抰 Actively Test On mono, but we actively recruit field testers who are familiar with mono last I heard, the Delphi for .NET compilers produce .NET applications that will execute on monojkaster:. Leonel: "Is there a chance that Mono could be a supported platform in the FUTURE? "- The Multi-Personality IDE CERTAINLY OPENS Up The Door for Plug-ins for Things Like this. Crosskylix Is Something You Might Want To Look At As Well.jkaster: Joeh:"
ANY SIGNS OF MS MAKING IT Easier for Delphi To Have CF? "- WE 抮 e Working on this. Targetting 2006jkaster: WebCAB:" Any Plans to EXTENDELPHI 抯 Support for COM (IE #IMPORT, 2 DIM ARRAYS Wrappers)? "- Not planning on significant new investment on win32 comjkaster: serge_d: "Do you plan to sync component list between .Net / win32 and VS.Net (HelpProvider, ToolTip, NotifyIcon, ErrorProvider)" - ask allen bauer during his chatjkaster: serge_d: "How ready D2005 for .Net 2.0 "- answeredaohlsson: emisosa:"? re unicode, what happens with the .pas file format? "- handledjkaster: serge, I don Yang understand your questionsaohlsson: leopasta:" Do you have any plan to remove p / Invoke dependency from VCL.Net in order to be compatible with Mono? "- no.aohlsson: edan:" What is involved in moving a VCL (that extensively uses Win32 API calls) to a .NET assembly "- handledaohlsson:? bfierens : "Any Progress, News, Sight On PocketPC Development" - Handled Earlierjkaster: Abauer: "Hey I Hear My Name Bein ! G bantered around "- that Zha just a voice in your head, Allenaohlsson: serge_d:"? Will .Net 2.0 leverage CF support for D2005 "- handled earlierjkaster: MaxOdenda:" I like the idea of having multiple personalities, what are your plans about including Kylix / Crosskylix / CLX into Delphi 2005? "- answeredaohlsson: Leonel:" How do you weight codegen improvements against new features when planning future development I mean, how important is an optimizing compiler for you, in the big picture?? "- Handledaohlsson: max, use /ask...jkaster: mrbtrieve:" Granted its a small sample, but i 抳 E Heard from One User of Delphi 2005 That The IDE IS "SLOW"
, Specifically when switching between a form and unit, on the scale of 2-3 seconds is this true Additionally he stated that when using the celebration lassic floating window IDE mode, CPU usage skyrockets Comments "-.??.? This is a great . question for Allen Zha chat Watch EventCentral http://ec.borland.com for announcements of his chatjkaster: futurix: "are there any changes for non-database VCL in Delphi 2005 New components??" - yes, there are good. . question for Seppy Bloom Zha chat Watch EventCentral for itjkaster: livechat: "Working with records in .NET is much faster than with objects Record types have been also greatly expanded in the recent versions of Delphi Do you generally recommend using records over objects.. ? whenever possible "- records in .NET are value types You have to be careful in that assertion of performance gain because data gets copied all over the place.jkaster: Tjipke:." Even adding system.io doesn Yang remove the inline hint " - OK, WE 抣 L Have to look at this! Aohlsson: Leonel: "AN y plans to include Design by Contract in the Delphi language?? "- answeredjkaster: Tjipke:" what is the use of the hint: "[Hint] CB4Tables.pas (949): H2443 Inline function Gong xtractFileName has not been expanded because unit慡 YSTEM.IOs Not Specified in Uses List "ExtractFileName Doesn 抰 Even COME from system.io!"
-. No the element returned by a collection enumerator needs to be read-only for optimization reasons the state of the collection should not changed as a result of enumerating it furthermore, enumerators do not guarantee order You can modify an object returned by... an enumerator, but not modify it in a way that will change its iteration order, but the exception might not always be raised for that condition CLS specifies this as a failure condition.aohlsson:. UnitOOPS: "horrified at the idea of even thinking about . inlining Comment "- handledjkaster: Tjipke:"? (inline continued ..) it does remove the warning when it is added to the implementation uses clause (not interface), but what if you change the implementation of extractfilename using not system.io But Something Else: All UNITS That Have Added The System.io Now NEED THE OTHER NAMESPACE ... LOOKS VERY BAD To Handle Here "- please follow-up on the newsgroups for this. WE 抮 E Actually Past Time To Quitaohlsson : Domus: "Have any internal benchmarks been executed to compare Delphi.NET applications to their Win32 equivalents?" - handledaohlsson: serge_d: "D2005 and .Net 2.0 / ASP2.0 support plans" - Great question for the upcoming chat with Jim & . steve regarding ASP.NET Stay tuned.jkaster: MaxOdenda: "I loved the demo from John Kaster about Together technology Any chance we get this in aDelphi release.?" - Together for Delphi is one of the wishlist items we have for the near Future. Eco actually Uses The Together Design Surfaces. More Should Come In The Future.aohlsson: WebCAB: "in Delphi for .NET, COM; WE '
? Re not sure what the best way to send and to receive two-dimensional safe arrays to COM methods is "- Let Zha schedule a chat with Chris Bensen aohlsson: MrBtrieve:!" Why, oh why, did you go and change our good old friend the tabbed-component palette "- Perfect question for Allen or Corbin Check EventCentral soon.jkaster:. emisosa:"?? maybe i should ask this to MS, but what happened with OpenGL or DirectX in .NET is there anything on the ? VCL in D2005 "- DirectX is already available in .NET directly OpenGL is a pet project of Danny Zha, and there were some issues that prevented getting it into managed code in time for this release.jkaster: question about Web Services and SOAPjkaster. : tsool: "I heard you were using the Virtual Tree View in D2005 Any chance you might it make available as a component for the D2005 users for use in .NET.?" - ask corbin or seppy in their chataohlsson: Worried about what, Julian? JKASTER: Jonr: "It see Someone from The Dev Team Mentioned That Microsoft Has P rohibited Borland from officially supporting mono Is that the accurate "- not correct That would be a violation of US Federal law for MS to attempt to prohibit Borland from doing this.dthorpe:.?. tjipke: vacation, family, then work: PPublic. Chat Room Transcript
Welcome to the moderated Borland Community Chat! You are allowed to speak freely with everyone in this lower window. In the upper window you'll find all messages written by moderators and invited speakers. To submit a question, click on the ASK Button.Press the HELP Button for help on advanced commands funkyfred:. hi allAnders: Hi Fred funkyfred:! hifunkyfred: VIP Lounge Public Chat funkyfred:?? :-) MrBtrieve: helloMrBtrieve: 10-4MrBtrieve: coffee MrBtrieve:? GatesDavidF: Got my cupMrBtrieve: returnsUnitOOPS: Refactoring, eh UnitOOPS:? Btw ... is this the volume level we can expect UnitOOPS:? Btw ... I use "UnitOOPS" since my real name breaks lots of stuffUnitOOPS: Jim O partial payment rineUnitOOPS: (O partial payment rien ) UNITOOPS: Right.MRBTRIEVE: Yaymrbtrieve: i 抦 # 1serge_d: hi, i her you guysserge_d:;
o) serge_d: when do you plan to release first update for D2005 iman:? lol sergecobolman: hi allcobolman: Pepseye MrBtrieve:? French mineral waterDavidF:! Wow All these high-tech dudes (MrBetrieve, Cobolman) !! serge_d: nothing illigal ? at work (drinks) cobolman: Hey Anders - nice to see you - haven Yang seen you in the ngs for a whilecobolman: yup - that Zha meMrBtrieve: i am hi-techDavidF: Hi Dannycobolman: Hi All - how long until you officially start iman: nocobolman: Nope - connecting was easyAndiS:?..! no problembmcgee: No problems connecting hereserge_d: nop, nice sound tooDavidF: wadda mean Cobolman This is it chat away MrBtrieve: when you pasted a link in the chat, clicking on taht should open a new browser.leopasta: ok from herebmcgee: Missed the Cobol thing, thoughiman: roomkey needs to be bold and underlinecobolman: OK great - time to get some caffeinedrbob42: no problem here - good soundcobolman: Hey Dr Bob - got your Hat on? Iman: yesdrbob42: no hat anymore ;-) iman::) COBOLMAN: What! THAT Mark Miller ....
-) I opened it in a tabcobolman: Firefox here too - works greatmnk:! TestsGingter: HellosGingter: makes sense:) drbob42: and stringlistsfuturix: Thank you :-) mnk: dr.bob is here drbob42: where else would I be! ?
.NET cluelessMrBtrieve: sorryWizardiii: then they show up above ;-) MrBtrieve: my mistakeJonR: Danny Zha Zha comments don Yang represent Borland opinion, so D9 works for me:.) Serge_d: to JinR, yes ... MrBtrieve: "vb "Heheemisosa: Function Inlineing .. Finally!:) Jonr: Very Very Useful for API Wrappers TO ... DRBOB42: YES, I Would Like to See That Hint;) Jonr: as long as we can turn IT OFF: -pdrbob42 : you can always uncheck all hints ;-) emisosa: hehehdomus: Salut, Bruno.bfierens: hi alldomus: <- Dominiqueemisosa: good one jkaster:) emisosa: sorry, i meant, good one Tjipke ..: PTjipke: thxleopasta: It would be extremelly useful to know when a function could be inlined by the compilerdrbob42: So finally I can use my Klingon (Unicode) identifiers Wizardiii:! loldrbob42: no Klingon properties Do Ze aH emisosa:!!: Ddomus: "Honey, I Bing In The Middle of a Meeting "Edan: What is involved in Moving a VCL (That Extensively Uses Win32 API Calls) To a .NET Assembly? Leopasta: Lolcobolman: SomeOne Asked About 64b IT! WHO DID THAT? OWN UP! COME ON :-) Serge_d: Delphi 200x and WindowsXP / 2003 Extensions (GUI) - Getting Windows XP logo Compliance for generated APS COGO Compliance for generated APS COGO Compliance for generated APS COGO Compliance for generated APS COGO COMPLIAN: DENNIS? Are you in here?:) _zzorro: NO IT WASN 抰 Dennis .... Cobolman: Yeah - I See It is the overhead on using .NET Interfaces:) COBOLMAN: THANKS for THESE ANSWERS - I appreciate it.dons: generic generics? DRBOB42: But you need the clox units from d7 to allow it to work on d2005 ... jonr: crosskylix is very cool ... DRBOB42: YES, IT IS VERY VERY COOL INDEED !! JULIANK: ONLY 48 Users? I Expected 4800.. : (DRBOB42: Perhaps you Are Late? Missed The Best Part?
Joeh: Thats Great News! DRBOB42: That 抯 Delphi 2006, Right, Not The Year 2006 ... ?? jthurman: i finally escaped from prior Obligations, with 5 minutes left in the chat ... Wizardiiii: with my buffer delay Your answers are here before I hear you talk about them ;-) JonR: Past chats have been archived ... serge_d: thank you, will doserge_d: To JohnK:? Sorry; (WindowsXP complaince Docking, Help system, look and feel, theams , ... we have things done but not completed ... Wizardiii: MaxOdenda ... it is on the partner CD.MaxOdenda: Together for Delphi Wizardiii:? CrossKylixMaxOdenda: I know, I was thinking about a real integration including form designerJulianK : From all that I hear, I Bing really worried as Delphi developer:. (MrBtrieve: why emisosa:? you should be happy Wizardiii:! Why drbob42:? are you listening to the same channel ?? ;-) JulianK: Cause since "D6" the delphi seem like one endness experiment..emisosa: to you?;
